To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 93 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #471: Msgs 5630-5644 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Sun Jun 13 22:00:03 EDT 1993
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traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jun 93 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #471: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 471  5630 09-Jun-1993 Bertil Jonell    Magic Engines <<   From 'The Effects of
 471  5631 10-Jun-1993 Bertil Jonell    Pressures <<   Just for the hell of it 
 471  5632 09-Jun-1993 JNCHIGGIN@delph  Fusion... << Bertil:
 471  5633 10-Jun-1993 Anthony Neal     MPD Drives in Hard Times... << Hello Al
 471  5634 09-Jun-1993 Steven Gott      Zhodani Warbots in the new era << I not
 471  5635 10-Jun-1993 Stewart Eyres    Traveller Done Wrong Working Group << F
 471  5636 10-Jun-1993 Stewart Eyres    Typo << "Traveller Done Wrong - Let's g
 471  5637 10-Jun-1993 Bertil Jonell    Re: Guess what << > From: JNCHIGGIN@del
 471  5638 10-Jun-1993 Goldman of Chao  Re: The Virus << -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED 
 471  5639 10-Jun-1993 rancke@diku.dk   Realism << Steve rants:
 471  5640 10-Jun-1993 tom@csvax1.ucc.  It's a kind of magic << Greetings all,
 471  5641 10-Jun-1993 John H Bogan     Back to basics: Are they fusion drives?
 471  5642 10-Jun-1993 gwh@lurnix.COM   Rocket Exhaust... << Steve Higginbotham
 471  5643 11-Jun-1993 PIHLAB%CBR.dnet  TDW << Traveller Done Wrong?  Don't you
 471  5644 10-Jun-1993 Scott S. Kellog  Are fusion rockets REALLY a problem? <<

------------------------------

Bundle: 471
Archive-Message-Number: 5630
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Magic Engines
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 23:50:11 +0200 (MET DST)

  From 'The Effects of Nuclear Weapons' and other sources:

  Complete fission of 57g of fissionable material produces 1kt (1.45).

  The three most likely fusion reactions are (weighted for probability)
three times more effective (1.69) pound for pound.
 
  Thus 1kt of energy (4.18e12J) requires complete fusion of 1/3 of 57g 
ie 19g of hydrogen.
 
  A Type S at 2G uses 25m3 of hydrogen per hour. That weighs 1750kg, so the
per second figure is 486g. 
 
  486g of hydrogen, undergong complete fusion, produces 25.6 kt of energy.

  Still claiming that the type S has an engine output of 33kt per
second, Steve?

  
  These fusion rockets are already more magical than a Staff of Wizardry, so
arguing about the exhaust seems as fruitful as arguing about if Magic Missiles
move in ballistic trajectories or not.

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Bundle: 471
Archive-Message-Number: 5631
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Pressures
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 01:58:41 +0200 (MET DST)

  Just for the hell of it I started to make calculations on the pressure of 
the jet. This might be the wrong method, but what the heck.

  The ship weighs 684,000kg and accelerates with 19.62m/s2. This means
that the force acting on it will be 19.62 m/s2 * 684000 kg = 13.4 MegaNewton.
This requires an opposite force of the same magnitue.
  The air pressure at terran sealevel is 101.325 * 10^3 Pascal. Pascal
is the same as Newton per square meter. So if we divide the force by the 
air pressure we get the area over which the force inflicts exactly the 
air pressure: 13.4e6 N / 101.352e3 N/m2 = 132.25m2.
  That is a circle with 6.5m radius. Using Steves model for beam dispersion
(10km diameter on 50km range) this translates to 64.9m from the nozzle.

 -bertil-
"I love the smell of Metrics in the morning"
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Bundle: 471
Archive-Message-Number: 5632
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1993 23:54:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: JNCHIGGIN@delphi.com
Subject: Fusion...

Bertil:
>  From 'The Effects of Nuclear Weapons' and other sources:

>  Complete fission of 57g of fissionable material produces 1kt (1.45).

>  The three most likely fusion reactions are (weighted for probability)
>three times more effective (1.69) pound for pound.
 
>  Thus 1kt of energy (4.18e12J) requires complete fusion of 1/3 of 57g 
>ie 19g of hydrogen.
 
>  A Type S at 2G uses 25m3 of hydrogen per hour. That weighs 1750kg, so
the
>per second figure is 486g. 
 
>  486g of hydrogen, undergong complete fusion, produces 25.6 kt of
energy.

>  Still claiming that the type S has an engine output of 33kt per
>second, Steve?

Fascinating.  Of course, I have been claiming a Free Trader (not a
Scout) had an output of 30Kt (not 33Kt).  And I was speaking in round
figures, also...

But beyond the fact that you got most of my arguments wrong, this is a
wonderful rebuttal.


>  Just for the hell of it I started to make calculations on the
>pressure of the jet. This might be the wrong method, but what the heck.

This is the wrong method.  Using a reasonable approximation (ideal gas),
the pressure of a gas is about (1/3) * N * v^2 * molecular mass, where N
is number of atoms (molecules) per unit volume.






Bertil:
>> I see no reason why fusion rockets would fail to operate in an
>> atmosphere.  The ejection velocity is far greater than sonic
>> velocities, thus the exhaust will not impinge on the ship itself
>> unless something reflects it.

>  I was thinking that there might be problems in getting the thing to
> ignite in the first place if the ignition chamber or whatever isn't in
> a vacuum. You could rig some contraption that 'opens the door' after 
> ignition trusting to the pressure to keep the air out, but there is 
> a risk of 'disposable doors' here if the ignition/opening isn't
> handled exactly correctly. And if they are gone your engine won't
> start.

Steal from Niven again, and use a squirt of vaporized fissionables to
jump-start the reaction.  The fission reaction will clear the air out of
the chamber REAL FAST, and provide the excess of neutrons needed to
start the fusion off with a bang...

Wildstar:

>Steve Higginbotham writes:

>The name of the game is science FICTION role-playing.  Getting the
>science right is important; don't doubt that I take some good care in
>getting the science believable.  However, at some level of detail,
>absolute scientific accuracy has to take a backseat to storytelling. 
>I described (and clearly labelled) what I would do if I had to make the
>call as a referee *right then*.  I *know* it's not scientifically
>accurate, but it should be good enough for the story to continue.

>As opposed to raising a problem and then heckling everybody while we
>puzzle it out, what would you do?  I realize that you're in a bad mood
>(probably from reading too much Star Viking background in T:TNE), but
>try to be constructive here.

What would I do?  If my PCs tried to toast a spaceport?  Say "Ok, it
breaks up nicely when the blast hits.  Now what's the plan?"  I don't
see any reason to restrict the guys (and girls) from wrecking things,
except where internal logic decrees that they can't (you know, the
places where there are like 3000 missile launchers waiting for you to
look at it wrong, or the places (like my first game) where there are
nuclear dampers focussed on your ship whenever it is within range of a
spacestation, or on the ground at a spaceport)...



Wildstar:
>I certainly can't speak for Hans and Bertil, but what I an trying to do
>is explain the following observations:

<lots of stuff>

So what does this all have to do with my original post, which started
all this?  My original post was to the effect that keeping nukes out of
the PC's hands (which you, Hans, and Bertil were trying to justify) was
pointless, since the destructive capability of the DRIVE was far more
extreme than any combination of nuke det-lasers they could carry.  This
has pretty much been ignored by you, and by everyone else, in the rush
to demonstrate how harmless a fusion drive is, or how things should be
changed to make them harmless..

>However, all of the available Traveller (Classic, MegaTraveller, and
>New Era) points to a very different model of ship operations.  

These are the same models that consider gas giant refueling a wonderful,
cost-effective, idea, right?


>While you have managed to produce a post virtually ensuring a
>significant flame-fest, you haven't managed to comment on any of my
>recent proposals in any serious manner.

That's because I have little if any interest in how starships land.  I
can see a lot of ways, you can see a lot of ways, everyone else can see
a lot of ways (well, a few for each of us anyway).  So?  I consider the
LETHALITY of the drive, and its usefulness as a weapon to be a FAR more
fundamental problem that needs resolution than the question of how ships
land...


>As far as thge possibilities of operating a fusion drive near a
>planetary surface or close to a large solid object in deep space, I've
>had a chance to do some more thinking.  I still feel that there is a
>chance (depending on the amount of damage the starship wishes to do,
>and the degree of success rolled by the pilot attempting the task) of
>damage to the ship.  THe closer you are, the better the damage done,
>but the higher your chances of being accidentally engulfed in the cloud
>of very hot, radioactive gas.  Even for an instant, that could cause
>damage.

Unlikely.  If the ship was designed to operate in space, where other
ships like this exist, then it is (SHOULD be) designed to deal with a
hit like that as long as the hit was less than, say, 0.01 seconds (the
time required for the ship to travel ten times its length at "normal"
speeds).  Assuming the "hit" was at long range (several hundred Km), or
just a brush with the edge of the drive flame, of course.


>Secondly, while the temprature of the fusion exhaust is very high, the
>mass flow is very low; I don't know enough about plasma physics to even
>begin to calculate what that would do in an atmosphere of any density.
>It seems to me that it's possible that the drive would "choke"
>and fail to function properly or at all; possibly with damage to the
>drive mechanism.

If this were true, then it would be even more true for fusion guns,
which have MUCH smaller mass flows, and (probably) operate at lower
temperatures and pressures to boot...So you are supposing that fusion
guns do not work?


>Unless and until someone can come up with some better physics; as a
>game ruling (based on referee's judgement of possible effects,
>playability, and general story needs) I would *still* say that running
>a fusion drive in an atmosphere will cause serios damage to the drive
>and/or ship.

Your privilege.  It seems I won't ever be playing with Trav with you as
GM, so I doubt it would ever matter, but if you decided that, I would
decide to quit playing, since I consider that a cop-out...


>At some point, additional scientific (or economic, or social, or
>anything) accuracy becomes detrimental to the game.

No, it doesn't.  At some point it becomes to difficult to calculate.  


>> PS.  My, I'm getting acid these days...

>You are.  You really should make the effort to be less so; it doesn't
>help you make your point, and it certainly doesn't help raise my
>opinion of you.  Maybe you should put less battery acid in your
>coffee?  ;-)

Quite frankly, after the last month of the TNE pocket, and the last few
days of the TML, I really don't give a flip what you think of me.  I
only care for the opinions of people I respect...


Baranski:

>    Second Idea:  What happens if we try to approximate a much higher
>energy fusion exhaust, with thinking about what a lower energy exhaust
>does in a denser medium, IE what happens when you try to run a rocket
>under water?

Lousy approximation.  Better one would be to keep RELATIVE pressures in
similar ratios, so the question then becomes "what happens when we run a
rocket in a vacuum?"  A chemical drive under water compares to a fusion
drive through rock, in other words...


>    Idea three:  Is it possible to tune the shape of the exhaust from
>the fusion drive.

Yes, but you sacrifice efficiency in a major way if you try...


Since relatively few people seem interested in addressing the question I
brought up (why worry about nukes when you have a fusion drive?), I
suspect that I can make the best use of my time by signing off now...

				---Steve Higginbotham

------------------------------

Bundle: 471
Archive-Message-Number: 5633
Date: 	Thu, 10 Jun 1993 01:49:21 -0230
From: Anthony Neal <anthonyn@odie.cs.mun.ca>
Subject: MPD Drives in Hard Times...

Hello All:

	Got another question for the Traveller Gurus, wherever they may be. Been
looking through my copy of Hard Times in the "One Small Step" section, a 
supplement to the Vehicle Design rules.
	Now, I have Star Systems rolled that my group will be travelling through
which are all Tech Level 7-8 and they contain off-world colonies. I needed a
State of the art ( :) ) form of engine to create a few neat things, including
a design close to that of the Eagle Transport that appeared in the old BBC
series "Space 1999" (I loved that series!).

	Now, the info for the MPD is as such:

TL   Type        TT   Mass   Vol   Fuel    F.Type     PwRqd  PwOP   MCr
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 8   MPD         0.2   10     10   0.005   Hydrogen   0.5    None   0.75
				 ---   --
				  ^    ^
				  |    |
				  \    /
				   \  /
					Huh??

	Now, If these figures are correct, how does the thing manage to get off the
ground? Further, taking a quote from page 82...

	"With this technology, true insystem commerce
	 can begin to flourish freely and easily"

	Please tell me these figures are typo'd in some way.

	Oh, and by the way, You guys are doin' a lot of neat calculations and
stuff with the missile chat, but frankly, it's over my head. I'm trying to 
follow it all, but with limited success. I keep hearing about supplements on
missiles available for starships and their penetrations and such. You guys got
an electronic version of this data? If so, please send it to me! Missiles are
looking pretty boring in my game at the moment. (Yeah, I only have the MT 
source books.)

	Thanks all...
	Anthony


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anthony Neal                 |"Lets bring up the cargo manifest. 2300 laser 
anthonyn@odie.cs.mun.ca      | pistols, 1600 laser rifles, 1 ATV, 67 suits of
Memorial University Of       | combat armor and...    What the hell are 
Newfoundland                 | 'tribbles'?"
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 471
Archive-Message-Number: 5634
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 22:02:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steven Gott <sgott@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Zhodani Warbots in the new era


I noted that the Ling Standard Products Model 317 Police Robot *looks* a
lot like a Zhodani Warbot!!   hmmm

I also thought about the Virus getting into Lucan's Bio-Weapons program
Shudder...

Also the plama weapons use the anti-vehicle format pp 297 under Penetrators

S Gott


------------------------------

Bundle: 471
Archive-Message-Number: 5635
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 08:21:06 +0100 (BST)
From: Stewart Eyres <spe@jb.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Traveller Done Wrong Working Group

For all those that do not see the problem with reactionless drives, etc.,
and can see the problem with missiles the size of a car, I propose that
TDW be created and pursued immediately (for REAL, not the Higginbotham way).

As I was never involved in the TDR discussions, I know of no real
objections to the MT 'thrusters' as described in Starship Operator's
Manual.  If you can believe in Jump Drive, Psionics, and combat at 500,000
km, then reactionless drives are no problem.  Ever here of negative
matter?  It provides a much more believable rationale for thruster
physics than exists for Jump Drive physics.  Science is all very well, but
don't let it get in the way of the *game*.

Anyway, TDW, let's go for it!!

"Traveller Done Wrong - Let's get the Fiction nack into Science Fiction
Rolepalying"

Stewart
spe@jb.man.ac.uk





------------------------------

Bundle: 471
Archive-Message-Number: 5636
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 09:50:19 +0100 (BST)
From: Stewart Eyres <spe@jb.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Typo

"Traveller Done Wrong - Let's get the Fiction back into Science Fiction
Roleplaying"

Stewart

spe@jb.man.ac.uk



------------------------------

Bundle: 471
Archive-Message-Number: 5637
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: Guess what
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 11:02:53 +0200 (MET DST)

> From: JNCHIGGIN@delphi.com
> Subject: Fusion rockets....
 
> Actually, these last couple, the feeling is more disgust than
> laughter...

  Nice that you manage some distance to the subject.
 
> >Will the other 8kT be radiation? Some of it in the form of
> >soft xrays perhaps?)
> 
> Probably not.  Probably hard gammas and neutrinos.

  Absolutely zero soft xrays? Do we know this?

  A reality check on this reveals that if it was true, that fusion reactions
don't result in any soft xrays, then the fireball from a fusion weapon would
be proportional to the *fission* part of the yeild and not the whole yield.
  There is no trace in tNoEW of this.

> But the radiation
> will be stopped by the nozzle, or the ship will be useless in atmosphere
> or out of it.

  "Stopped by the nozzle" and exactly how did you intend to make that happen
without a magic force field? Assuming a somwhat decent spread of the exhaust,
the radiation will be below hazardous levels at 50km in deep space, especially
considering the minimum of 5cm of steel all ships have. So the ships will
still not be a traffic hazard in space even if the radiation through the
nozzle isn't stopped.

> Bertil, once the plasma leaves the nozzle, it doesn't matter a flip
> whether it was the result of fusion, chemical reaction, or someone
> blowing real hard.  All that matters is the kinetic energy of the
> particles, and the size and shape of the nozzle.  And all the fluid
> dynamics *I* ever learned says that a jet that hot will do an enormous
> amount of damage to everything below it.  And it won't form a fireball,
> unless all those fluid dynamics professors were incompetent inbeciles...

IMPORTANT:
  This leads me to suspect that you have missed my point, more or less.
I have never claimed that the *matter* part of the exhaust would form a
fireball, or that a citykilling plasma jet 50km long would *not* result.

  I was arguing that the *radiation* part of the exhaust (unless stopped by
that radiation-absorbing magic force field of yours) would, through the same
mechanism as in nukes, form a thermal fireball somewhere aft of the ship.
  It is further immaterial wether this fireball moves away from the ship
at whatever speed or not, because as long as the engines are running it will
be replenished by new radiation.

> 				---Steve Higginbotham
 
> "A reaction drive is a weapon, whose efficiency is in direct proportion
> to its efficiency as a drive."  ---The Kzinti Lesson (by Larry Niven).

  They used photon engines, didn't they?

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Bundle: 471
Archive-Message-Number: 5638
Subject: Re: The Virus
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 8:26:42 CDT
From: goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US)
Reply-To: goldman@orac.cray.com

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


> Bundle: 470
> Archive-Message-Number: 5620
> Subject: Re: The Virus
> Date: Wed, 09 Jun 93 18:20:34 +1000
> From: Pauli <grue@cs.uq.oz.au>

> I don't usually follow-up to myself but in this case it serves a purpose:

> Yesterday, I wrote:
> [stuff about the unviability of the virus at low TL deleted]

> Followed by an innane bit:
> >Yep done it.  Got it into a few hundred bytes of code.  Now to infect the
> >world!

> How many people paniced about this part of the message? (none???)

> Well this is EXACTLY how the virus is supposed to infect unknown (and possibly
> alien) computer systems.  Still sound reasonable at the current tech level???
> (I still make no claims about super high tech computers because I cannot know
> anything about them).

Never sounded reasonable.

> As an aside: This is quite close to how the 'internet worm' gained access
> to WELL KNOWN systems.  It didn't take very long for those systems to be
> cleaned up and the bugs fixed.  It is also possible to design a machine
> that is totally immune to an infection along these lines even with errors
> on the application programmers part.

Fearful of starting a religious war Matt says:
The internet worm attacked known bugs in the sendmail transport
system.  It only attacked specific platforms which it had
precompiled binaries available for.

This of course suggests that everyone in the old Traveller universe
ran on a few well known hardware platforms.  This is further supported
by the wide availability of programmes such as 'Jump-1', 'Jump-2' and
my personal favorite, 'Anti-Hijaacking'.

The virus should not be able to attack weird-alien computers such as
the ones onboard the Annic Nova.  Weird-alien (tm) ships suddenly
become much more valuable.  Planets which use WA technology suddenly
have a very favorable ballance of trade.  Time to go make some
notes...

Matt
- - -- 
Matthew Goldman  E-mail: goldman@orac.cray.com Work: (612) 683-3061

	Buddy: "Why do I always have to go first?"
	Sally: "Because you're expendable."

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------------------------------

Bundle: 471
Archive-Message-Number: 5639
From: rancke@diku.dk
Subject: Realism
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 15:35:35 +0100 (METDST)

Steve rants:
>MORE loud laughter!
> 
>Hans, sounds like you REALLY want to play the Star Wars RPG, not Traveller. 

Sounds wrong then, I don't care enough for the Star Wars universe. I did
start playing Traveller just because it was the only SF game around, but I 
stuck to it because of the background information that appeared by and by. 
I'd kinda like to stick to the rules too, but only in order to be able to 
contribute to that background. If not for that I'd've converted to my own 
home-grown system a long time ago.

>And aren't you one of the guys who used to say rude things
>about grav, and wish for realistic fusion drives?

No.

>Quite frankly, I am pretty disgusted by the fact that everyone seems
>willing to change the "laws of the universe" rather than face up to the
>situation presented, and learn to live with it.  

That's partly because the situation presented does not agree with the laws
of the universe. 

>If you use the starship
>rules ("laws of nature") from TNE, you have to learn to deal with the
>fact that ANY ship can toast ANY city (well, any city at TL12-, and most
>any at TL14-).

Exactly. And that does not really square too well with the entire history
of the Imperium as we know it, does it?

It sounds like you've lost touch with the fact that Traveller is a game, 
not a simulation. The most important thing about a game is that it's rules
be _consistent_, not that they be realistic. Realism is _often_ a good 
thing both because realism tends to be consistent (Mother Nature is such a 
stickler for consistency) and because it dosen't burden the players'
willing suspension of disbelief, allowing me to save that up for when it's
really needed. But if realism starts infringing on gamability then realism
can take a long walk off a short pier.
 
> 	So what does that mean?  Well, landing ships should be RIGHT OUT! 

Bang goes the Traveller background. Score one against realism.

>Allowing a fusion gun that size near ANY city is INSANE!  

I agree 100%. It is insane unless the city has adequate defenses. Since 
Traveller ships DO land near cities it is unrealistic to assume that such 
defenses does not exist. 

>So ships
>should be docking at space stations FAR from a planet (like
>geostationary orbit, for instance.  

But they don't, so there is something wrong with the assumptions. Either
ships don't use fusion drives or the cities have defenses. QED. (Since a
ship in itself is a pretty horrible weapon even if it is just dropped 
from any appreciable height I suggest that the defenses are the most
reasonable, but perhaps some other explanation can be found.) 

>That gives the planetary defenses
>time to scrag anyone who deviates from traffic corridors toward the
>planet).  You should LAND in shuttles that have ONLY scramjet/chemical
>rocket drives (getting up and down will be pretty damn tricky.  Sort of
>like 2300AD).

>	Of course, out in the Wilds, there is NO WAY IN HELL that you can
>keep PCs (OR NPCS!!!!!) from landing anywhere they like, and toasting
>anyone they dislike!  

Of course there is. I'm the Referee. If I don't want it it doesn't happen.
I sure would like a better explanation for my players than 'because I say
so", of course. But I'll use that one if I can't come up with something
better. I repeat, this is a game, not a simulation.

However, I don't really think I want to keep NPCs from toasting anyone they 
like in the Wilds. What I want to protect is the civilization centers without
which there would be no SF role-playing because there would be no SF tech.

>So live with it.  

No.

>Or stop complaining, and go back
>to Megatraveller starship rules (yeah, the ones most of you have spent
>YEARS complaining about)!  And remember this the next time you decide to
>cry out for "more realistic starship rules".

What I've cried out for is consistent starship rules. Rules that dosen't
(realistically) place huge defense squadrons around every planet in every 
system in any interstellar state, but still allow a motley bunch of PCs
to own a starship, for example.

And Steve rants on in another message:
> A Proposal:
> 
> 	Far all those who don't like the idea that the TNE universe is a
>dangerous place, full of people (PCs and NPCs) who have the power to
>toast cities if they want to, 

Hey, this is for me!

>				I would like to propose the formation of a
>Working Group to Study the Problems, and find Solutions.  I propose that
>the Working Group be called
> 
> 	The Traveller Done Wrong Working Group (TDW).
> 
> 	The main focus for this Working Group should be the use of Magic and
>Wishful Thinking to alter the TNE "reality" to suit their view of "the
>Way Things Should Be".

Steve, the day you provide me a realistic (Even almost realistic. I'll give
you the jump drive for free) explanation of the history of Charted Space 
as we know it (Or drop the Traveller Universe completely) you can begin 
being sarky about magic and wishful thinking and unrealism. Until then 
you're just blowing hot air.

> 	And I further propose that all you people who are kvetching about
>the usefulness of a fusion drive as a weapon should immediately join
>this working group, since you are patently incapable of handling
>"Traveller Done Right".

"Traveller Done Tedious and Unplayable" more like it.

> 	In that vein, I'd like to extend a personal invitation to Wildstar,
>Hans, and Bertil to start this Working Group off with a bang. 
>Hopefully, you all can have a report ready REAL SOON NOW...

Come off your high horse, Steve. If you're so hung up on realism how can
you play Traveller at all? How can you ignore the horrible travesty of 
the laws of nature that the jump drive is? How can you play in a galaxy
that is apparently a parsec thick? How can you play TCS with such an
unrealistic economic system? (Even with the improvements you've made it
is still rather unrealistic.) You're no more hung up on realism than I
am, your priorities are just different. My priorities are 1) making the
game fun, and 2) trying to save the Traveller Imperium background (if
possible). Oh yeah, and 3) contributing to Aoreriyya (I sometimes wish 
I hadn't gotten my interest caught there. It would be much easier to
crush the Rebellion, teach the Vargr a lesson, work out a modus vivendi 
with the Aslans, and get on with my campaign without bothering about TNE
at all). 

> PS.  My, I'm getting acid these days...

Give your stomach a rest, Steve. 

>"Traveller Done Wrong - Let's get the Science OUT of Science Fiction
>Roleplaying...."

"Traveller Done _Really_ Right  -  Let's get the GAME into Science Fiction
Roleplaying and let the science take a hike if it dosen't approve..."

Wildstar:
>rancke@diku.dk (Hans Rancke) writes:
>>Item: I don't want just any starship owner to be able to torch 
>>planets at will, yet we have these super blowtorches. Answer: Planetary
>>force screens.
> 
> Please, No!  This opens far too many cans of worms than it solves.

You may be right. Maybe it would be better to drop the fusion drives instead.

>Secondly, to make these "new" missiles useful, you really want to have a
>MFD (Master Fire Director) which allows you to ignore some or all of the
>increased difficulty levels associated with the new missiles.  Bertil
>suggested (and I agree) that MFDs should be restricted-purchase items,
>and normally found only on warships.

Sounds good. I suppose that moving the spaceports away from the main cities
is not much of a retcon, given how few planetary maps we have (for if the
cities rely on defense batteries then they wouldn't allow fusion powered
ships closer than they would have time to shoot them down over relatively
open land (or sea). How far would you say a starport should be from 
anything you really want to protect?) 


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Bundle: 471
Archive-Message-Number: 5640
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 15:48:06 BST
From: tom@csvax1.ucc.ie
Subject: It's a kind of magic


Greetings all,

           From what I have heard about TNE, traveller has been retconned to
reduce the level of technology to a level mostly understandable to us in the
20th century. I personally don't agree with this, as I would prefer a less
than glacial rate of technological advance in a SF setting which means that
there would have been many new developments by the 58th century. The idea that
we could understand the basic principles of 90% of 58th century technology 
right now is to me unbelievable. Discovery of entirely new technologies will
make gadgets which seem magic to us (Clarke's Law). While I can understand the
reluctance in some people to have such devices, given the time span involved
there will have to be some, and their position is as "realistic" as any other.
From what I hear, the best personal weaponry in TNE is pretty much advanced
versions of what is in existence now-not much SF about that. 
 
          Of course, once a "magic" technology is introduced, its development
and synthesis with other technologies can have major ramifications. For
instance in MT I considered the advance in fusion power efficiencies
at high TL to be partly due to Black Globe technology being used for power
conversion purposes. If force-fields can be generated, they too could be used
in fusion plants (and rockets). And since the magic techologies are arbitrary,
such as the jump drive itself, people will not agree on them.
 
         Incidentally a SF novel I once read had a conspiracy theory intended
to stultify scientific and technological progress, prevent colonisation and 
promote financial and social stability. The reasoning was that the rich and 
powerful benefit from the status quo and are naturally conservative. Any
technological advance or expansion of frontiers would be taken advantage of by
those who had more to gain than to lose ie the poor, and the net result would
be that the rich would proportionally decrease in power and influence. So has
anyone ever heard of a starfaring state with a rigid power structure, slow
technological advance and very limited expansion prospects?
 
          If I run TNE most of the ships in MY universe won't have fusion
rockets, but that is my choice. Other people can do what they want to, and
good luck to them.  After all, it is only a game : ) 



  Tom O'Neill  |   Tom@CSVAX1.UCC.IE        SCCS6085@IRUCCVAX.UCC.IE 
- ---------------!--------------------------------------------------------------
                    Fact is stranger than fiction

------------------------------

Bundle: 471
Archive-Message-Number: 5641
From: John H Bogan <jbogan@libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu>
Subject: Back to basics: Are they fusion drives?
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 18:24:15 EDT

     Jim Baranski brought up a point in the big fusion
debate that I was thinking of too, but didn't have time to 
post until now.

Are starship engines fusion rockets, or did someone jump the gun
  with an assumption?

Evidence from T:TNE to indicate fusion rockets:

     1) pg. 224: reference to "reaction mass" for in-system
          travel fuel.
     2) G-hour concept:  Maneuver drives have high fuel consumption.

     3) pg 365, speeder description:  speeder powered by fusion
          reactor, "Contra-grav units provide lift while a fusion-
          powered jet provides thrust." (similar to ships?)

      4) In all ship and vehicle descriptions, Contra-grav is
          mentioned, thruster plates are not.

Evidence against:

     I think I remember ONE mention of thruster plates outside
of the technology section, but since I can't find it right now,
I'll have to discount it.  If anyone else finds it, let me know.

OK, so it's all clear they use fusion rockets, right?
   Well, maybe not. Take a look at it this way:
(from above)
     4) _NO_ form of propulsive system is mentioned except
        for the speeder (and G-carrier, which has an "ignition
        chamber", but I left it out because it doesn't use
        fusion power).  So it doesn't explicitly state
        "fusion rockets" either.

     3) a "fusion powered jet" may be an air-breather that
        uses the fusion plant to super-heat the air before
        release as exhaust.  Does not need to be a fusion
        rocket itself. (I never saw anyone arguing for this,
        with perhaps one exception, but this may have
        prompted folks to simply assume a fusion rocket.

     2) the G-hour concept seems to have been added simply
        to force some kind of endurance limits on ships.
        ? Maybe thruster plates chew up gobs of fuel when
        activated?.

     1) Reaction mass: potential sloppy terminology on 
          GDW's part. Not like it's never happened before.

Summary: My real, non-stretching-the-point thoughts:

   The fusion rocket approach seems to make too much trouble
     for the old 'Traveller feel' most of us know and
     love.  Starports more often resembled Mos Eisley rather 
     than Cape Canaveral.  Sure, you could smash your ship
     into a city, but there were no big regulations keeping
     them from the area of cities, lest they start up the drives.

I _REALLY_ hope they aren't using the 'rocket' approach to
    maneuver drives.  The grav/thruster plate approach is
    well embedded in classic Traveller material, and I'm 
    going to be in a royal blue funk if I have to convert
    everything from rocket to thruster plate technology
    myself when the architecture manual comes out.

John H Bogan

jbogan@ic.sunysb.edu


------------------------------

Bundle: 471
Archive-Message-Number: 5642
Subject: Rocket Exhaust...
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 18:56:28 -0700
From: gwh@lurnix.COM


Steve Higginbotham:
>George, you are a
>rocket guy, so your fluid dynamics is more current than mine is.  What
>kind of exhaust profile would you get from an Isp=2,000,000 rocket with
>a 100:1 mouth:throat ratio nozzle?  Politely assuming that the nozzle
>shape was optimized for the fluid moving through it, of course...

I'd need to know chamber pressure to work that in detail, which I am
unwilling to do for a fusion rocket.  However, rule of thumb is that
the plume will "rapidly" expand until it's internal pressure is equal
to outside atmospheric pressure, and will extend very roughly for
Isp * (Isp/33)^0.5 meters long, which gives us... [nevermind, 
the fomula breaks down at these Isp values...]

"A LONG DISTANCE"

I'm more worried about the cosmic ray radiation than the plume, though.
Fluid Mechanics breaks down at relatavistic speeds.  "A Reynolds number
of WHAT?????" 8-)

- -george



------------------------------

Bundle: 471
Archive-Message-Number: 5643
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 13:34:43 +1000
From: PIHLAB%CBR.dnet@hhcs.gov.au
Subject: TDW


Traveller Done Wrong?  Don't you mean TRAVELLER - THE NEW ERROR    8^}

spe@jb.man.ac.uk write:
>Ever here of negative matter?

No. Tell me about it ... please.

It's probably staring me in the face but what is "retcon" short for?

jbogan@libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu raises a good point.  Has anyone found a
reference to FUSION ROCKETS or details on what mechanism a FUSION
DRIVE uses in TNE?

Whew!  Some interesting HEATED backchat on fusion rockets and missiles
out there.  Perhaps we could start a nice friendly discussion on our
preferred programming language or even the best programmers editor
on the market 8^}.

My universe will not be using FUSION ROCKETS except as a possible low
tech alternative.  If I am forced to use them in this way can one of the
more techy readers please indicate what characteristics the drive 
would have when used as a weapon ... range damage etc...


Bruce...      pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.au

------------------------------

Bundle: 471
Archive-Message-Number: 5644
From: skellogg@lonestar.utsa.edu (Scott S. Kellogg)
Subject: Are fusion rockets REALLY a problem?
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 23:20:43 CDT

My vision:

Ships take off and land from starports just like they do in the old
trav days.  With a few details that have been left off:

The ship lifts on contra-grav until it reaches a safe altitude to
engage the drives at LOW power.  The ship maneuvers to a safe area
(and continues climbing) and then throttles up to the desired
thrust level.

The flight path is heavily guarded by 'shore batteries'.  Deviating
just may get you blown to smithereens.  It also uses a nuclear
damper to help dispose of the scattered radiation of the drives.

The drives work just fine in the atmosphere, and even underwater
(like they used to do in the old Trav days...)

They can, if a pilot is crazy enough, be used to incinerate a large area,
and are possibly the most lethal of weapons.

However, any Referee worth his salt will not put the players in a situation
where using the drive as a weapon will be useful.  And if the drive would
be useful it is not available.   Also, if the players actually did
misuse the drive, then there are all sorts of nasty things that Referee's
can do to them.

Check your Traveller collections.  You will not find a single adventure
there where a huge heavy weapon was needed and a starship drive was
available.  (INCLUDING Double Adventure 6  Horde/Chamax Plague.  The
ship was disabled and not flyable.)

MegaTraveller is a different story.  There, there was call for heavy
nasty superweapons.  But we aren't Playing that game any more.  Now
there is no call for such weapons.  So why worry about a weapon that
is basically useless?

Scott 2G Kellogg


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #472: Msgs 5645-5659 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed Jun 16 22:00:03 EDT 1993
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #472: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 472  5645 11-Jun-1993 rancke@diku.dk   Realism and rudeness << Steve writes:
 472  5646 11-Jun-1993 Bertil Jonell    Re: TML nightly: Msgs 5632-5641 V56#16 
 472  5647 11-Jun-1993 John H Bogan     Alien Government Codes <<    For the be
 472  5648 11-Jun-1993 clh@mitre.gov    Clarke's Law << WPCX
 472  5649 11-Jun-1993 Robert S. Dean   Enough! << I think we've had quite enou
 472  5650 11-Jun-1993 Kerry Harrison   Fusion Rockets as Drives? <<      Quest
 472  5651 12-Jun-1993 SULAIMAN@ecs.um  TNE Book points. << Regards other thing
 472  5652 11-Jun-1993 Leonard Erickso  Missiles and fusion rockets, etc <<  
 472  5653 12-Jun-1993 Leonard Erickso  comments on Magic vs reality <<  
 472  5654 12-Jun-1993 Anthony Neal     Tracked Vehicle << Howdy All...
 472  5655 12-Jun-1993 Eric Edward Moo  Non-reactionless rockets << Does anyone
 472  5656 12-Jun-1993 Kelly St.Clair   Hungry Thruster Plates, not Fusion << S
 472  5657 13-Jun-1993 Joe Heck         Vacationtime! << Yo folks. For those tr
 472  5658 13-Jun-1993 rancke@diku.dk   Magic and realism << Leonard Erickson w
 472  5659 13-Jun-1993 John Driver      Try this for errata.... << Derek Wildst

------------------------------

Bundle: 472
Archive-Message-Number: 5645
From: rancke@diku.dk
Subject: Realism and rudeness
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 07:21:31 +0100 (METDST)

Steve writes:
>What would I do?  If my PCs tried to toast a spaceport?  Say "Ok, it

Forget the damn PCs. They are not the problem. PCs can be dealt with
in other ways (like placing 3000 missile launchers and/or nuclear 
dampers around the places you don't want them to torch ;-) (or even
just informing them that you don't enjoy running games with homicidal
maniac PCs)). The problem is letting such weapons into the hands of
the space-age equivalent of truck drivers. Given the number of crazies
and fanatics there should realistically (Yeech! there's that word again!)
be running around most planets would have a few smoking holes in them
if that were so. _That's why I don't want common space jockeys to have
such weapons. 

>That's because I have little if any interest in how starships land.  I
>can see a lot of ways, you can see a lot of ways, everyone else can see
>a lot of ways (well, a few for each of us anyway).  So?  I consider the
>LETHALITY of the drive, and its usefulness as a weapon to be a FAR more
>fundamental problem that needs resolution than the question of how ships
>land...

Oh, so you do consider the fusion drive a problem? I got the impression
that your opinion about that was "It's lethal and so what?". OK, in
what way do you consider it a problem and what solution do you suggest?

>[Wildstar:]
>>Unless and until someone can come up with some better physics; as a
>>game ruling (based on referee's judgement of possible effects,
>>playability, and general story needs) I would *still* say that running
>>a fusion drive in an atmosphere will cause serios damage to the drive
>>and/or ship.
> 
>Your privilege.  It seems I won't ever be playing with Trav with you as
>GM, so I doubt it would ever matter, but if you decided that, I would
>decide to quit playing, since I consider that a cop-out...
 
How so? Wildstar dosen't want fusion drives used in atmosphere and he
informs his players that contrary to what is thought today it turns out
that there are insurmountable difficulties with using fusion drives in
atmosphere. A yet unknown effect, perhaps. Or the physical laws of his
universe differs a tad from those of the Real World. So what? As long
as he informs his players about any different rules and applies them
consistently the game dosen't suffer.

>>At some point, additional scientific (or economic, or social, or
>>anything) accuracy becomes detrimental to the game.
> 
>No, it doesn't.  At some point it becomes too difficult to calculate.  

Two completely different things. If it becomes too difficult to calculate
it will almost certainly be detrimental to the game, but there are lots
of instances where too much accuracy is detrimental to the game even if
it's easy to calculate. 

You appear to regard realism as an end in itself. I happen to regard it 
as a means to an end.

>Quite frankly, after the last month of the TNE pocket, and the last few
>days of the TML, I really don't give a flip what you think of me.  I
>only care for the opinions of people I respect...

I will treat that remark with the contempt it deserves.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
  "Free speech gives a man the right to talk about the
'psycology' of an amoeba, but I don't have to listen".
                  Elihu Nivens in 'The Puppet Masters'



------------------------------

Bundle: 472
Archive-Message-Number: 5646
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 5632-5641 V56#16
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 13:13:03 +0200 (MET DST)

> From: JNCHIGGIN@delphi.com
> Subject: Fusion...

> Bertil:
>> A Type S at 2G uses 25m3 of hydrogen per hour. That weighs 1750kg, so the
> >per second figure is 486g. 
>  
> >  486g of hydrogen, undergong complete fusion, produces 25.6 kt of
> energy.
> 
> >  Still claiming that the type S has an engine output of 33kt per
> >second, Steve?
> 
> Fascinating.  Of course, I have been claiming a Free Trader (not a
> Scout) had an output of 30Kt (not 33Kt).  And I was speaking in round
> figures, also...

  Your criticism is disingenious, because as I'm sure you are aware of,
a Free Trader at 1G uses *excatly the same amount of fuel* per hour as
a Scout at 2G (which is the combination of ship and situation I did my
calculations on).
  Also, the 25.6kt is an absolute upper limit assuming 100% fusion. That 
sounds hard to accomplish, so the effective output figure could easily
be half of this, or smaller.

  But if we assume that Grandfather sneak around on the yards at night and
install small anti-matter boosters in all ships, then the 30Kt figure is
acceptable.

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Bundle: 472
Archive-Message-Number: 5647
From: John H Bogan <jbogan@ic.sunysb.edu>
Subject: Alien Government Codes
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 13:32:10 EDT

   For the benefit of the "Alien Modules impaired" ;) , I'm reprinting the
government codes for G+

G (Aslan) Small station or facility. Either operated by an offworld clan
     or controlled by a company (the only instance where a world is
     controlled by anything but a clan);population must be 3-

H (Aslan) Split control; different parts of the world are owned by several
     on-world clans. An analogy to human balkanized worlds.

J (Aslan) Single on-world clan control. Other clans may also be present,
     but they will be dominated by the major clan.

K (Aslan) Single multi-world clan control. The world is controlled by a
     single clan whose span extends over several worlds, not neccessarily
     nearby.

L (Aslan) Major clan control. The world is controlled by one of the 29.

M (Aslan) Vassal clan control. The world is controlled (but not owned) by
     a vassal clan in feif of a larger clan.

N (Aslan) Major vassal clan control. The world is controlled (but not
     owned) by a vassal clan in feif to one of the 29.

P (K'Kree) Small station or facility maintained for the good of a family.
     Population must be 1 or 2.

Q (K'Kree) Ruled by a krurruna or a group of krurrunak answerable to an
     off-world steppelord. Population must be 3 to 5.

R (K'Kree) Ruled by a steppelord on-planet. Population must be 6+.

<note: K'Kree governments are assigned automatically by population>
<applicable to K'Kree populations only. Non-K'Kree pops use standard>

S (Hiver) Sept.  Governing committee of seven nest leaders.

T (Hiver) Unsupervised Anarchy. Individual agreements between all citizens.

U (Hiver) Supervised Anarchy. Individual agreements between all nests.

W (Hiver) Committee. Governing committee of nest leaders.

X (Droyne) Droyne Hierarchy. Established communities are ruled by
     hereditary and long-established governments.


<one further note: most aliens also use standard gov codes in some
  fashion. Not all are aplicable in every case, though>

John H Bogan
jbogan@ic.sunysb.edu


------------------------------

Bundle: 472
Archive-Message-Number: 5648
Subject: Clarke's Law
From: clh@mitre.gov
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 15:29:00 PDT

^?WPCX^B


^A
K^R
D^R
1.
2.
3.
4.^R
;^R
1. 3 4^R
7.9^R
^ET
Espa@9^A@^?^?^?^?1 de 3 de 4
am
pm^R
enero
febrero
marzo
abril
mayo
junio
julio
agosto
septiembre
oc

They mentioned that Arthur C. Clarke's statement, "A sufficiently^Madvanced technology will be indistinguishable from magic" to be^M"Clarke's Law".  My copy of his 1964 book _Profiles of the Future_^M(p.14) states Clarke's Law as

B^AX^B@^C@^C^H

Sorry but I just had to parade this knowledge.

) Chuck
clh@mitre.org


------------------------------

Bundle: 472
Archive-Message-Number: 5649
Date:     Fri, 11 Jun 93 16:14:33 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@cbda8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Enough!

I think we've had quite enough fusion drive discussion for a while. (-:

What's the rest of the game look like?

How about posting a couple of typical characters or a worked out combat
example, or something like that?

ob Dean




------------------------------

Bundle: 472
Archive-Message-Number: 5650
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 23:23:43 CST
From: Kerry Harrison <harrisok@ccmail.dell.com>
Subject: Fusion Rockets as Drives?

     Question: where in the TNE rulebook does it state that fusion rockets 
     have replaced the thruster plate drives?
     
     
     Kerry Harrison
     harrisok@ccmail.dell.com


------------------------------

Bundle: 472
Archive-Message-Number: 5651
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1993 01:02:50 -0500
From: SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edu
Subject: TNE Book points.

Regards other things in the TNE book. I found the chart errors annoying.
I thought the two intro adventures were ok. However they are far too
oriented towards "superior firepower" over thinking. 

Plasma weapons in PC hands seem to be the weapon of choice in the introductory
adventures. Hard to see how the PCs can lose. 

I hate the template character generation system. 

More on that a bit later.

Ameer

------------------------------

Bundle: 472
Archive-Message-Number: 5652
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 23:43:42 PDT
From: Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Missiles and fusion rockets, etc

 
Sorry if the following is disorganized, but stuff is coming rather
frequently, and I wanted to get *something* out while it was still
topical. Also, I've missed *at least* one issue <sigh>.


wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu (Derek Wildstar) writes:
Subject: Missiles and Drives and Such

>Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Leonard Erickson) writes:
>> I can just about *guarantee* that detonating velocity is *far* below
>> closing velocity. Which means that shaped charges are useles, as the
>> missile impact will be moving faster than the detonation of the
>> explosive. This kills HEAP and doesn't  help HE much either.

>I'm afraid that I'm no expert on explosives, but presumably the timing
>of the detonation can be arranged to work out anyway.  The penetration
>mechanism of a HEAP charge is the jet of hot gas generated.  To make it
>work at high speeds, you need to have a proximity fuse that will set off
>the warhead the right amount of time before impact, right?

Nope. The jet moves at or perhaps *somewhat* faster than the detonation
velocity.  The problem is that the missile is moving faster than the
jet can progate! (Yes, the jet's speed *does* add to that of the
missile. but not significantly) The effects of the missile acting as a
penetrator overwhelm it. (Why do you suppose those HEAP pentration
curves flatten out?!)

> And I'm willing to bet that velocity #2 is below closing velocity in
> most cases as well. Which again makes HE a waste of time!

Not quite.  KEAP is kind of useless agains a ground target - it has lots
of energy, but doesn't deliver it in the most useful form.  So HE will
be around as a ground attach missile that just happens to have a
secondary anti-ship role.

I was *specificly* discussing ship-to-ship combat.

And as Bertil points out, you can always choose *not* to detonate the
explosive, after all - it's still got it's kinetic energy.

Yes, but it doesn't deliver as efficiently as something more solid would.


Now as to the fusion rockets...

Going with 20,000 km/s exhaust velocity and 480 gm/s fuel comsumption I
come up with the following:

Assuming 1 gram per cubic *meter* as the density of the exhaust (a
figure that is probably *way* too low), a simple calculation gives a
jet diameter of 5.5 *millimeters*. That much energy in that small an
area is *not* going to slowed by any atmosphere on the mainworld
charts.

I also *seriously* doubt that it'll be slowed by rock. Not for the
first few meters anyway. As I noted long ago, a fusion rocket exhaust
will cheerfully bore a hole in whatever you land on. And with such a
small diameter, landing legs aren't neaerly the problem that has been
assumed. So what if you've got a puddle of boiling rock a few meters
across?  Especially since it may be subsurface.


About the virus:

Someone was wondering how a current day network could be immune from
infection as someone else had claimed.

It's actually quite simple. With most (if not all) LAN software out there,
only the *supervisor* has write access to the directories containing
the globally available executables (files in your *personal* directory
are your own problem). A user *cannot* change them NOR CAN A VIRUS
RUNNING ON HIS SYSTEM. This is because all access to the servers drives
is by means of sending *commands* that are executed by the software
running on the server. The server checks to see if you are allowed to
use the commands *before* it executes them.

We had several viruses get loose on a Novell LAN. They *only* infected
the directories of a few people that had given each other *write*
access to their directories. And several hard drives got infected when
someone would log on from the infected accounts. But the rate of spread
was slow.

Now if the supervisor equivalent accounts had logged in from an
infected machine, things could have been messy. But that's *why* you
are careful about such things.

If we can safeguard things that well at this TL, I rather doubt that
later TLs will allow the sort of stupidity required for the Virus to spread.

Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se> writes:
Subject: Re: Missiles
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 12:17:35 +0200 (MET DST)

>> From: Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Leonard Erickson)
>> Subject: Missiles

>> I can just about *guarantee* that detonating velocity is *far* below
>> closing velocity. Which means that shaped charges are useles, as the
>> missile impact will be moving faster than the detonation of the
>> explosive. This kills HEAP and doesn't  help HE much either.

>  Wildstar adressed this.

And I re-addressed it above.

>> And if they punch through, they'll either create one *hell* of a shock
>> wave in the atmosphere of the ship, or keep punching holes in anything
>> that gets in their way until they are slowed to  bullet velocities, or
>> have completely vaporized.

>  Are you sure that they are capable of penetrating? If your data is correct
>(and I have no reason to doubt it) it would seem that any missile sized
>object would vaporize into plasma (along with a part of the hull) when it
>hits. So the effect on the hull would be a crater and the effect inside the
>ship a fireball and spalls flying around. No penetration of missile parts.

There's a relationship between size/mass & velocity that basicly says
if it is big enough and fast enough, then as the leading part
vaporizes, the rest punches on through the plasma. That's what the
meteorite protection schemes are based on. The small stuf vaporizes on
impact with the foil shield. The bigger stuff punches through, losing a
portion of its mass.

>> Your several inches of armor could result in *more* damage than an
>> *unarmored* vessel would recieve, simply because more of the projectiles
>> KE would be transferred to the vessel!

>  You need a minimum level of armour to get the radiation down to manageble
>levels.

>> For a 5 ton projectile,
>
>  Too heavy. Abolute maximum 2 tons (for 1 ton of warhead and one ton of
>structure) I'd say.

I picked it because the missiles are suipposedly *7* tons according to
postings here. I allowed 2 tons for fuel and whatnot.

>> V (g-hr) (m/sec)   KE(ergs) (% of BC) kilotons   diameter(meters)
>>    1      3.528e3  3.112e19     .04     .7 kT        91
>>
>> These figures should give an idea of just what sort of forces we are
>> discussing. No *possible* chemical explosive will even be noticed in
>> this sort of energy release.

>  Having 1000kg of HE in the missile means that you have a cheap (yes,
>militarily speaking exposives are cheap) 1 ton lump of something that won't
>work worse than any other 1 ton lump, but will work better in an atmosphere.

Actually, it *will* work worse that something denser will. It's too
easy to vaporize the explosive. :-)

>  1 gturn is aprox mach 50. I'd like to see a missile designed for space
>pull mach 50 in an atmosphere:) I assume they are designed for space since
>most situations occur in space and protection against mach 50 would increase
>the cost significantly.

>  (This also limits the use of KE missiles against ground targets)

But we have designs on the drawing boards *now* for orbit to ground KE
weapons (project Thor was one about 15 years back). You have to design
a bit differently, but it is easily done. I *do* agree that you can't
use space-to-space munitions as space-to-ground munitions.

>> BTW, for a 5 *gram* projectile, we get 1 millionth the energy, or
>> 1/100th the diameter. So change the diameters above to cm. Which means
>> that 5 gm  projectile (a BB) at the veocity give by a mere 1 g for 1
>> hour, will blast a 91 cm crater in solid rock. And likely do something
>> similar im armor.  How many 5 gm BBs can a 7 ton missile carry and how
>> large a volume will they fill at "optimum" dispersal?

>  The cannister missile I did used 15000 10mm 10g tungsten spheres, since
>I estimated that that would weigh the same as the laser/detonation warhead.
>
>  (Btw: I'll check the crater sizes against the tEoNW, since they look a
>little large for the kilotonnage even at optimum depth of burst:)

Please do. Though I expect that they are within a factor of 2 which ios
*more* than adequate. :-)

BTW, that Sprint missile Wildstar mentions had accelerations in the
*hundreds* of Gs. I see no reason why they can't build that sort of
acceleration into missiles at TL 15. And with a fusion rocket, you
could get a reasonable duration without outrageous amounts of fuel.

Try dodging a 200 g missile sometime. :-)

(Heck, a Sprint could ruin your whole day even if you *were* a TL15
wonder. :-)


More on landing a fusion rocket....

Just either land on CG, or run the drive at something *incredibly*
inefficient using the plasma to heat something else (LH2? Air?) which
gets dumped out secondary nozzles at some horribly "low" Isp like
400-1000 (a fusion version of NERVA). That explains the need for an
areodynamic shape, as you *can't* just ride down the jet without
wasting *lots* of fuel (this isn't as importnat if you are using "air"
as the working fluid).

"clearing the throat" of the big jet would likely make anybody in the
vicinity *real* unhappy. :-)

BTW, the fusion drive *doesn't* have to be continous. It could be
pulsed fusion, though that doesn't match well with the high Isp.

Want a *real* nightmare? Under the old rules at the *high* tech levels,
there was a mention of "photon rockets" or some such. This is a *very*
high Isp drive. It's also dangerous as hell, because it amounts to
having a laser as your drive. Sit down and figure out the energy
density required of a laser that can drive a ship at 6 gs. Then figure
out what happens to anything that gets in the way. :-)
- --  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!51!Leonard.Erickson
Internet: Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org

------------------------------

Bundle: 472
Archive-Message-Number: 5653
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 93 00:32:02 PDT
From: Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: comments on Magic vs reality

 
I see several people arguing that "But you objected to the thruster
plates and now you object to the fusion drives..." or similar
arguments.

What the "realism" folks objected to about the MT thruster plates was
not *primarily* that they were reactionless. That's no worse than the
jump drive. It makes for some problems in trying to calculate what can
and can't be done, because you can't be sure *how* it suprcedes the
currently known laws of physics (note: it is an ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that
any "new laws of physics discovered will *include* the currently know
ones as "special cases" that apply UNDER THE CONDITIONS WE HAVE
CURRENTLY CHECKED. Just as Relativistic Physics *includes* Newtonian
Physics as a "special case for speeds below 1% of c)

Anyway, the problem with reactionless drives was that as described in
the rules, they used far less energy than they gave to the ship. That
plays hell with *any* sort of history of the Imperium, because anybody
who'd taken high school physics could see this, and use it to do things
that'd result in a far different universe than we see.

They *also* allowed anybody with a Scout ship to wreck entire *worlds*,
not just cities (check the archives for my posts on what a relativitic
missile does to a planet!)

Anybody who thinks I'm being silly here has never gamed with player who
will sit down with the rules and exploit them to the max. I'm not
talking about "rules lawyers as much as brilliant opportunists. "Hey
look! Nobody has noticed that you can do X! And it's even *legal*".
And if players can notice it, some bright boy in the Imperium would
have noticed it a thousand years ago.

Now they've solved both those problems. Though the drive is *still*
apparently about 5 times as good as the best figures I ever heard
claimed. :-)

Now we just have cities to worry about, not entire worlds. And there
may be ways of doing that. But any approach that amounts to introducing
*real* nagic, as opposed to unknown physics doesn't belong here.

I consider "real magic" to be anything that insists that the currently
known laws of physics don't apply under conditions that have already
beeen observed. Which means that fusion rockets will not and cannot be
harmless. But their effects may be more or less limited than has been
supposed.

BTW, the objection that it seems unreasonable for things that far in
the future to be based on principles that we can understand is rather
silly. A *Roman* engineer could understand much of the operating
principles of a car or truck. He'd not understand *why* the cylinders
moved up and down, or any of the electrical system. But everything else
would be quite clear. The worksmanship would be astounding, but the
principles of mechanics have been known for several thousand years...

Likewise we can't understand how they can get the fusion reaction to
occur, nor how they can confine it. But after that, things follow well
known principles. Give us a few numbers and we can tell you what that
fusion rocket will do.

We can't understand the jump drive. But we don't need to. And
Contragravity may be non-understandabler, but its *effects* are easily
figured.

Yes, it is just a game. But *any* game where the rules don't match
reality is going to get itself into tyrouble because this *will* set up
internal contradictions. We "realism freaks" would prefer to find and
correct these thiongs *before* they bite us.

Oh yes, please note that modern ships and planes are about as dangerous
as Traveller starships in reference to the culture. A 707 can make a
decent bomber. And the Soviet cargo and passenger planes up thru the
70s or 80s were *designed* with the equivalent odf "hard points"!
Likewise an average freighter has a powerplant comparable to that of a
small town! In the future, there is no reason not to expect things to
be similar.

Just for fun, figure out what a mach 2 airliner could do to an average
town if it made a *low* level pass at mach 2. (Answer, the shock wave
would *flatten* most frame houses and cause *major* structural damage to
everything else!) Yet we'd not consider having one of these in private
hands to be all that dangerous.

I maintain that IN PROPORTION TO THE CULTURE'S ENERGY USE AND SIZE, a
starship with a fusion rocket (if that's what they use) is no more
dangerous.

Think back over our history here on earth. We've had aircraft and
shipping disasters of a size that would *horrify* folks a few hundred
years ago. (like the jumbo jet that crashed into a residential
neighborhood  here about 15 years back. Wiped out 4 block, plus all the
passengers). Or the Texas City disaster where *one* freighter took out
most of a city. The idea of one man controlling something thast could
kill *thousand* of people, and having it accepted as commonplace WOULD
NOT HAVE BEEN BELIEVED. But we do.

So why is it so hard to believe thaty a culture with populations in the
*trillions* (or possibly qudrillions?) is not going to think much of a
vehicle that is relatively speaking, about as hard to get as a
freighter or jumbo jet, could destroy a few million people if the
operator chose to?
- --  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!51!Leonard.Erickson
Internet: Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org

------------------------------

Bundle: 472
Archive-Message-Number: 5654
Date: 	Sat, 12 Jun 1993 04:11:59 -0230
From: Anthony Neal <anthonyn@odie.cs.mun.ca>
Subject: Tracked Vehicle

Howdy All...

	No life. Friday night/Saturday morning at 4:00, and I'm submitting this.
I should be sleeping....

	I've always loved tracked vehicles. Loved them to death. Love tanks too.
So, I have a character in my campaign that got a Scout/Courier on mustering out
and had done nothing but exploration duty. He had a 4 ton vehicle bay, and, 
never wanting to just hand out air rafts, I designed this. Hope someone else
can find a bit of use for this...


"Bear" Tracked Scout Exploration Vehicle

  CraftID: Tracked Scout Exploration Vehicle, TL 11, MCr 1.498
     Hull: 4/9, Disp=4, Config=4USL, Armor=10D, Unloaded=16.2 tons,
           Loaded=31.5 tons
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=4.0 Mw, Duration=30/90
     Loco: 1/2, Tracks, P/W=127, Road=246 kph, Offroad=148
     Comm: Radio=Continental(5000 km), LaserComm=Continental(5000 km),
           MaserComm=Planetary(50,000 km)
  Sensors: Headlights*4, ActiveEMS=Continental(5000 km), PassiveEMS=Continental
           (5000 km), Magnetic=V.Distant, Synthetic Vision,
           ActObjScn=Difficult, ActObjPin=Difficult, PasObjScn=Formidable,
           PasEngScn=Formidable
      Off: Hardpoints=1, Weapon Stabilization to 120 kph


                        Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
             Ammo  Rds  Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
  2 Mw PL-8   --    -   12/2     5    Dist(5)  3      3      H     80

      Def: -
  Control: Computer=Model/0, Panel=Dynamic Linked*32
    Accom: Crew=2 (Driver, Commander/Gunner), Passengers=6, Seats=Adequate*8,
           Env=Basic Env, Basic LS, Extended LS, Airlock
    Other: Fuel=4.32 Kl, Cargo=15 Kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate

    Having been a great success in use by lower Tech Levels, the Bear IISS
Tracked Scout Exploration Vehicle was redesigned for use in Vaccum conditions.
With a starship quality air-lock, and total life support, the Bear is
considered to be the equivalent of a light tank in use with the Scout Service.
Protection is provided by a single 2 Mw Pulse Laser, mounted on top of the
vehicle in a closed turret. Capable of carrying 6 passengers, the seats can be
removed to provide extra cargo room, sacrificing the speed of the vehicle. The
removal of 5 seats would allow the installation of a singular bunk. The
plant provides an additional 1 Mw of excess power. Additional Panels will be
necessary for add-on equipment.


	Watch now, they'll probably run the thing over a cliff... :-)


	Anthony

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anthony Neal                 |"Lets bring up the cargo manifest. 2300 laser 
anthonyn@odie.cs.mun.ca      | pistols, 1600 laser rifles, 1 ATV, 67 suits of
Memorial University Of       | combat armor and...    What the hell are 
Newfoundland                 | 'tribbles'?"
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 472
Archive-Message-Number: 5655
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1993 23:39:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Edward Moore <deathmaster+@cmu.edu>
Subject: Non-reactionless rockets

Does anyone have any idea what the required temperatures in the
chambers of these fusion rockets would be (I'm not intending to fan
fthe flamewar, I've tried this before, and my answers allways stink)
I tried using the kinetic theory of gasses to get a figure for the
temperature.  Somebody tell me if I'm wrong:

First F=ma

Assume a 100t spaceship weighs 100 metric tons (10^5 kg) (no way, it's
a lot more than that, but bear with me). a = 10m/s^2 (1 g more or
less) Thus F = 10^6N

F = dp/dt (change in momenum w.r.t time)

dp/dt = dm/dt (mass of gas expelled per second) V (speed of gas
molecules)

From an earlier post dm/dt = 500 g/s = .5 kg/s

Thus 10^6N = 0.5 kg/s * 2*10^6m/s

inother words the rocket exhaust to be "non-reactionless" has to be
traveling at 2 million meters a second (2/3 % of the speed of light).

According to the kinetic theory of gasses V = (RT/M)^.5 where R is the
gas constant (8 J/mol K) T is the temperature and M the molecular mass
of the gas.  Thus, T = (V^2)*(M/R). M = .001 kg/mol, r=8 , M/R ~ 10^-4
this means if V=10^6 then V^2=10^12 and T must be on the order of 100
MILLION degrees.  

Even if this is kept in a magnetic bottle, it's black body radiation
will melt anything.  The peak frequency in the blackbody distribution
is at 10^20 Hz at that temperature.  The wavelength is on the order of
a hundreth of an angstrom (well into the X-Ray region).  

This seems a *bit* odd to me, could someone please check my physics (I
will admit to using some simplyfying assumptions that could introduce
errors in my calculations, generally I tried to err on the side of
conservativism.  But even if I'm off by _4 orders of magnitude_ we
need temperatures ten times what is found on the surfaces of the
hottest stars.

To be honest, if I'm right, I prefer the thruster plates.  They make
much more sense.  Somebody tell me what I did wrong.

	-Love, Kisses, and a Neutron Bomb
		-Eric the Finn

------------------------------

Bundle: 472
Archive-Message-Number: 5656
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 93 21:33:00 -0700
From: Kelly St.Clair <kstclair@jacobs.CSOS.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Hungry Thruster Plates, not Fusion


Some other people have finally begun to make the same suggestion that I've
  been thinking about for the last few days, but had yet to get around to
  posting to the list.  To wit - given the many difficulties with putting
  fusion drives in private hands, compared with the relative simplicity of
  dealing with good ol' thruster plates (once that nasty thing about
  conservation of energy is fixed, keeping them from being perpetual motion
  machines)...

Why not just assume that TNE ships are driven by thruster plates?  Hungry
  ones, to be sure, compared with what they used to be (in the already
  much-broken MT rules), but this can only be a good thing.  The fact that
  their fuel consumption and other figures happen to resemble those of
  fusion rockets doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Much simpler, yes?


- ------------------------------
Kelly St.Clair (Daydreamer)       PS:  I think Steve is just crabby because
kstclair@jacobs.csos.orst.edu       no-one listened to him when he was going
                                    on about the economics rules, naval
                                    budgets, etc.  Or his vision for the
                                    net.TNE.campaign.    :)

------------------------------

Bundle: 472
Archive-Message-Number: 5657
Date:         Sun, 13 Jun 93 00:26:27 CDT
From: Joe Heck <CCJOE@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject:      Vacationtime!

Yo folks. For those trying to find me, I'm heading out into the woods for a
week to escape silicon poisoning.

James: I've taken care of the mail bit, so just let it roll and I'll catch up
with it _slowly_ when I'm in out of the sun (and rain, I'm sure).

Take it easy folks,
 joe                          (314) 882-5000
 ccjoe@mizzou1.missouri.edu

------------------------------

Bundle: 472
Archive-Message-Number: 5658
From: rancke@diku.dk
Subject: Magic and realism
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1993 18:16:47 +0100 (METDST)

Leonard Erickson writes:
>Yes, it is just a game. But *any* game where the rules don't match
>reality is going to get itself into trouble because this *will* set up
>internal contradictions. 

I agree that keeping things realistic is a good way of keeping them
consistent. I'll even agree that deviating from reality is _likely_
to set up internal contradictions. But I do not agree that it *will*,
absolutely, set up internal contradictions. 

And as I've stated before, what a game needs is consistency, not realism.
There are aspects of reality that makes a SF RPG less fun. 

>Think back over our history here on earth. We've had aircraft and
>shipping disasters of a size that would *horrify* folks a few hundred
>years ago. (like the jumbo jet that crashed into a residential
>neighborhood  here about 15 years back. Wiped out 4 block, plus all the
>passengers). Or the Texas City disaster where *one* freighter took out
>most of a city. The idea of one man controlling something that could
>kill *thousand* of people, and having it accepted as commonplace WOULD
>NOT HAVE BEEN BELIEVED. But we do.

>So why is it so hard to believe thaty a culture with populations in the
>*trillions* (or possibly qudrillions?) is not going to think much of a
>vehicle that is relatively speaking, about as hard to get as a
>freighter or jumbo jet, could destroy a few million people if the
>operator chose to?

Its not hard to believe. Its just hard to believe that it would create
a culture like the Traveller Imperium. After all, whenever we've had 
disasters like the ones you describe steps are usually taken to avoid a 
repetition of same (or at least to minimize the chance of a repetition). 
And so far we've not had any examples of terrorists crashing aircraft 
into residental areas. Logically the fact that terrorists have been
known to make suicide runs in trucks should make people wary of how
aircarft could be used the same way, but most people are not logical.
Steps to avoid aircraft suicide runs won't be taken until such runs
are made. But it is my belief that steps _will_ be taken afterwards.
So picture the Traveller societies after 10,000 years of space travel.
Do you think that _noone_ would have tried to use a starship for a
weapon in all that time? It's possible, I suppose, but I consider it
damn unrealistic.  


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir


------------------------------

Bundle: 472
Archive-Message-Number: 5659
Subject: Try this for errata....
From: jdriver@netlink.cts.com (John Driver)
Reply-To: jdriver@netlink.cts.com
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 93 19:15:26 PDT

Derek Wildstar asked for an errata list for TNE.  Well, I have always had 

problems with the world creation rules.  Can anyone clarify the following 

points for me?
 
Extended System Generation
 
1)  Step #6, Companion Star Type and Size.
        It says:  "DM For Type:  Use the previous roll for primary star
type as a +DM."  So if I rolled an 8 for my primary star, then I should
add 8 to my roll for the companion star?  What happens when I get values
above 12, which is bound to happen?  Do I simply round down to 12?  Or
do I reroll results not listed?
 
2)  Step #20, Orbit Zones for Luminosity Class D
        Okay, so there are only four orbits available.  What do I do when 
I
roll four gas giants, three empty orbits, planetoid belts, etc for this
system?  There is simply no place to put them all.
 
3)  What happens when you roll all the habitable zones as being empty?
Scrap the system and start over?
 
4)  Step #13-20, Orbit Zones
        Say I have a G3 star.  Do I round down to G0, or do I use G5?
 
5)  This one really gets to me.  For a number of the steps in the 
Mainworld
Generation and Extended System Generation systems, it is possible to roll
values outside of those listed, and most of the time you are not told 
what
to do when this happens.  Examples?
 
- --The adjusted atmosphere roll can be as high as 24, but the table only
covers up to 15.
 
- --The Hydrographics roll can be as high as 24, but the table only goes
up to 10.
 
- --The Government roll can be as high as 22, but the table only goes up
to 15.
 
- --The pattern repeats for Law Level, and in the Extended System
Generation System, Step #4, #6 (as detailed above), and #7.
 
 
6)  What's the Black Curtain.  I dunno, it isn't mentioned anywhere 
in the book.  Looks neat, though.
 
                                  
NOTE:  I have purchased TNE and will be going through and responding 
to articles as soon as I finish it.                                       
                     
[Ds

- --                    
INTERNET:  jdriver@netlink.cts.com (John Driver)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!jdriver
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 22:00:04 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #473: Msgs 5660-5687 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed Jun 30 22:00:03 EDT 1993
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 22:00:04 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #473: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 473  5660 14-Jun-1993 Derek Wildstar   Not to open this flamewar again ... << 
 473  5661 13-Jun-1993 Will Hartung -   TNE Musings... << I finally picked up T
 473  5662 14-Jun-1993 Stewart Eyres    Retcon? << Hi
 473  5663 14-Jun-1993 m23331@m23331-p  Clarke's Law (repost) << Please forgive
 473  5664 14-Jun-1993 John H Bogan     Old Era Way Station Problem <<     With
 473  5665 14-Jun-1993 Kerry Harrison   Dave Nilsen on Missiles in TNE <<      
 473  5666 14-Jun-1993 Kerry Harrison   TNE Errata <<      Someone was asking f
 473  5667 14-Jun-1993 gwh@lurnix.COM   Re: TML nightly: Msgs 5659-5666 V56#20 
 473  5668 14-Jun-1993 Colin Roald      Negative Matter << Since we have enough
 473  5669 15-Jun-1993 Bertil Jonell    Dave Nilsen on Deckplans <<   From AABP
 473  5670 15-Jun-1993 Robert S. Dean   Re:  Dave Nilsen on Missiles in TNE << 
 473  5671 15-Jun-1993 Bertil Jonell    Re: Retcon << > From: Stewart Eyres <sp
 473  5672 17-Jun-1993 Kerry Harrison   Re: TML nightly: Msgs 5660-5664 V57#1 <
 473  5673 17-Jun-1993 Robert S. Dean   TNS Announcement << Terra/Solomani Rim,
 473  5674 17-Jun-1993 Bertil Jonell    Re: TNS Announcement <<   Congratulatio
 473  5675 18-Jun-1993 kirsch@rhea.inf  Character Damage Sheet :) << Hello fell
 473  5676 18-Jun-1993 Sean Maguire     William Stewart Dean - Stats << Robert 
 473  5677 18-Jun-1993 Mark Watson      Re: TNS announcement << Rob,
 473  5678 18-Jun-1993 gwh@lurnix.COM   Re: TNS announcement << Congratulations
 473  5679 18-Jun-1993 Kelly St.Clair   Re: TNS announcement << > the arrival o
 473  5680 19-Jun-1993 Anthony Neal     Scout/Courier... << Hello out there:
 473  5681 19-Jun-1993 Pauli            Re: Character Damage Sheet << hi,
 473  5682 20-Jun-1993 Bertil Jonell    Postjump System Generation <<   First o
 473  5683 20-Jun-1993 John H Bogan     Upcoming TNE Support <<      I came upo
 473  5684 21-Jun-1993 Bertil Jonell    House Rules 1: Successes <<   Sometimes
 473  5685 21-Jun-1993 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.  Games in Traveller << Howdy all,
 473  5686 21-Jun-1993 Mark Urbin       TNE ramblings... <<   I've been going o
 473  5687 21-Jun-1993 Mark Urbin       Picture of Aslan in TNE sourcebook... <

------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5660
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 93 00:46:42 EDT
From: wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: Not to open this flamewar again ...


Eric the Finn writes:
> To be honest, if I'm right, I prefer the thruster plates.  They make
> much more sense.  Somebody tell me what I did wrong.

Well, I get about the same numbers, or higher (work it out for a spaceship
mass of 1900 metric tons ... 3.8e7 m/s or about 0.13c ... yipes!  *That's*
a free trader?).

In any case, I called Dave Nilsen and asked him (without filling him in on
this discussion, and without outlining our various scenarios to him) how
the "Fusion Rockets" in T:TNE worked.  I did mention that I was concerned
about radiation and hot plasma effects.

Dave's answer was that the drive uses a heat exchange system to heat LH2
in the thrust chamber using energy from the fusion reactor.  No fusion,
no radiation, no massive damage.

There you have it; it's not physics (but then again, the "new era" space
drives obey physics about as much as the thruster plates and agaility
generators of MegaTraveller --- as Bertil pointed out, its about as sane
as arguing if AD&D "Magic Missiles" travel on a ballistic path).  It is
however, a playable game mechanic.

The great thing about Traveller is that as a role-playing game, and as a
story under control of the storyteller (referee); if this answer bugs you
or your players, you *are* perfectly fee to come up with your own 
rationalization, and your own game ruling.  After all, it's your game.

'nuff said from me on this thread; I've got more important things to do.

                                ;-)


wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                 Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                         in the Far Future


------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5661
Subject: TNE Musings...
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 93 17:59:10 PDT
From: Will Hartung - Master Rallyeist <villy@uunet.uu.net>


I finally picked up TNE and have been thumbling through it. It is a
touch thick.

Anyway, I may have made a few assumptions that just are incorrect. I
assumed that TNE is kinda-maybe-sorta-almost-at-least-a-little-bit 
compatible with the older Travellar stuff. MT was pretty much an
evolutionary product whereas TNE is a revolutionary product. At its
core, TNE has bascially nothing to do with MT and before. The data in
Survival Margin on converting from MT to TNE would have been just as
apllicable if it was written for "MT to GURPS".

Clearly, there is some remnant from MT to TNE -- Animals, Trade, World
Generation, etc. From the discussions (agruments? Flame Fests?) that
have been happening recently, its apparent that some rather drastic
shifts in Starship technology have happened. For example, I assumed
that when they mentioned the nuke-laser missile as the "generic
missile", that this was the "generic missile" that we've always used.
But it distrubed me because the Imperium did not allow such prolific
use of nuclear technology. And if that was the case, then missile
turrets would not be common. I was concerned more with the past than
the future.

I think that the system has changed enough that the "feel" of the game
is no longer what it was. From the change in mechanics to the trashing
of the Imperium, "Toto, we're not in Deneb any more". TNE is a
different game. It's as different from Travellar as 2300 was. 

But, I guess this is GDW's goal. A blurb in the Tech section of TNE
mentions that when the Architecture Manual comes out, it will describe
various different technologies that "CAN" happen. Thruster Plates,
Stutterwarp, and FTL communications all seem to be in this one
cohesive manual. TNE presents the Official GDW Universe, but
individual players can dump the jump drive and use stutterwarp
instead. 

I guess GDW felt that the Imperium was too dominating and that new
players/refs felt they had to know the entire history so that they
could play their adventure "right". I liked the Imperium. I think
there has been more talk on this list about the ficticious Imperium
than the current spat of rules-talk we're going through now. The
Imperium may have been as attractive to some as it was overbearing to
others.

But on the other side of the coin, I think people play games as much
for their atmosphere as for their mechanics. that if a group
really liked a particular game, but had specific problem with it, they
would keep the environ and just change the rules. GDW changed both
with TNE.

TNE could easily be called Twilight 1200: The New Era. You're in post
armageddon known space. The Imperium is dead, but so what -- you were
never in it. Technology is lost -- but who cares, you've never known
it, except maybe as campfire tales. For those still in the thick of
the Old Imperium, in the Regency; It's changed from the free
wheeling hope and commerce filled universe of your grand parents to a 
police state surrounded by ancient enemies. The people know it, and 
they feel it -- but for you, it's always been that way. It's a time
where misery and oppression prevails thoughout. Where strangers from
the stars obliterate your local tyrant and replace it with one of
their own, for your own good. So we can play either the oppressor or
the oppressed. Sign me up.

I am hopeful for the TA manual. The TA manual will be the link
that allows the older Travellar stuff to work with the new mechanics.
I like Travellar with the Johnny Quest flare. Ships landing with a
loud hum instead of nuclear hell. 

I think that there must be a way to make the G-Turns and reaction mass
and all of the f=ma stuff we've been flinging around work with our
fanciful clean drives and Jump systems. I mean, if all else fails I
guess when a player asks "How do the M-Drives work?", we can always
answer: "Well, you see that knob on the dash next to the ON switch?
That's how it works."

Will
(me@zipbang.socal.com)


------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5662
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 08:57:02 +0100 (BST)
From: Stewart Eyres <spe@jb.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Retcon?

Hi

Echoing Bruce, what does retcon mean?

NEGATIVE MATTER

The matter we are all used to is, according to Einstein, all positive matter.
This means it exerts a force on all other matter directly proportional to its
mass and inversely proportional to the separation (no, really, it does!).

Negative matter simply has *negative* mass, so that the force is negative, or 
*repels* all other matter.  This is *not* anti-matter, which so far only has 
been found with positive mass.

In some book I read (I can't remember the name, but can find out), someone 
proposed a spaceship drive which involved mounting a plate of negative matter
next to a plate of positive matter, and then charging the two.  The result is
a forward force, although I'm not sure why.

	+ve matter <----
	pulls	__        __
		| |       | |
		| |	  | |
		|+|	  |-|
		| |       | |
		| |	  | |
         -ve matter <---
	pushes

As we have two forces pushing in the same direction, and the plates are braced
to stop them coming together or apart (if the masses were unmtached)(in fact
unmtached masses may make this work better).  I really don't know what 
difference the electric charge makes, but as gravity is a weak force, it
presumably enhances the overall effect somehow.  The result seems to be that
modulating the charge changes that thrust.  Sounds a bit like a thruster plate
to me!

This works even better if you consider Classic Trav gravitics to work on an
`amplifying gravitons' basis.  All you have to do is amplify the number of
negative gravitons streaming off your negative matter thruster plate, and you
have thrust (I think).


What is Chuck on !?!
____________________________________________________________________________
"Traveller Done Wrong 
         - Let's get the Fiction back into Science Fiction Roleplaying"

Stewart								N.R.A.L.
								Jodrell Bank
								Macclesfield
spe@jb.man.ac.uk						Cheshire
								SK11 9DL
____________________________________________________________________________



------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5663
Subject: Clarke's Law (repost)
From: m23331@m23331-pc.mitre.org
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 93 08:56:09 PDT

Please forgive my Friday night post... that's what I get for feeding
my mailer raw WordPerfect files.  Here's what I meant to say:

Sorry I've forgotten who mentioned it in the last TML, but...

Someone mentioned that Arthur C. Clarke's statement, "A sufficiently
advanced technology will be indistinguishable from magic" to be
"Clarke's Law".  My copy of his 1964 book _Profiles of the Future_
(p.14) states Clarke's Law as

     When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that
     something is possible, he is almost certainly right.  When
     he states that something is impossible, he is very probably
     wrong.

Sorry but I just had to parade this knowledge.

- - Chuck
clh@mitre.org
^Z

------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5664
From: John H Bogan <jbogan@ic.sunysb.edu>
Subject: Old Era Way Station Problem
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 93 17:57:27 EDT

    With all the New Era stuff being hashed about, I thought I'd change
the pace a bit with a classic era problem I've discovered. I haven't 
seen it in the archives, so if this is old news please direct me to 
where it was discussed.  I have trouble believing I'm the first person
to notice this, but I haven't seen it anywhere else.

   The Problem? The X-boat route maps published by Digest Group seem to 
pay no attention to the Way Stations placed in _Atlas of the Imperium_.
A quick example:Corridor sector(pre-rebellion) has Way Stations(WS's)
at 0608 and 2837, yet neither has X-boat routes connecting to them.
The same problem exists in every sector with published routes, with the
obvious exception of the "old" sectors- the Marches, Solomani Rim, and
Old Expanses.
   While checking this, I came upon another WS problem--the lack of them.
The Old Expanses has 9, the Spinward Marches has 6 (for 10 Imperial
subsectors). In contrast, most sectors have 3 or 4, even though they
represent the oldest, most settled regions of the Imperium. Considering
the WS's function as major maitainence and routing facilities for the X-boat
network, these popuplous sectors seem shortchanged. Naturally this is a 
result of the way they were generated, but obviously the generation program
did not generate WS's with a frequency consistent with previously published
material.
   My solution: Following the "least intrusive" dictum for making changes, 
I suggest the best solution is to reposition the WS's onto the mapped
network. Existing WS's off-route would be downgraded to normal scout bases.
The number of WS's in a sector would be determined, generally 1 per 
2 Imperial-controlled subsectors. These would be placed either by upgrading
existing on-route scout bases or by placing new bases on the route, 
preferably at the junction of 3 or more routes.
   Some sectors still have a higher than average ratio of WS's to Imperial
subsectors, but these can be explained by the requirements of that sector.
For example, the Marches need home ports for the IISS's long-ranged criuser-
sized vessels which ply the regions to spinward, surveying, collecting
intelligence, and maintaining contact with the scattered client states in
the area. On the other hand, Core, as the administrative and communications
hub of the Imperium, needs more to handle the increased traffic load.
  Here is a list of the WS's listed in "AotI", followed by a new list for
several sectors I have X-boat maps to, or could extrapolate from Rebellion
Era maps.

IMPERIAL WAY STATIONS LISTED IN ATLAS OF THE IMPERIUM

Spinward Marches------(6):0333,0930,1705,2228,3032,3202
Deneb-----------------(5):0336,0913,1023,1615,2913
Corridor--------------(2):0608,2837
Vland-----------------(4):0237,0708,1725,2932
Lishun----------------(3):0210,0331,1627
Antares---------------(4):0336,1119,1810,2638
Empty Quarter---------(0):
Trojan Reach----------(1):2102
Reft------------------(0):
Gushemege-------------(5):0740,0924,1412,1638,2813
Dagudashag------------(4):0613,1640,1721,2807
Core-----------------(10):0322,0402,1016,1033,2016,2118,2139,2224,2403,3034
Fornast---------------(4):0340,1215,2334,2524
Ley-------------------(3):0724,1210,1435
Verge-----------------(1):2612
Ilelish---------------(4):0520,0525,1229,3027
Zarugashar------------(4):0621,1902,3136,3201
Massilia--------------(4):1326,1424,1837,2905
Delphi----------------(3):0411,0533,1438
Glimmerdrift Reaches--(1):0635
Daibei----------------(3):1126,1411,1935
Diaspora--------------(4):0207,0918,2130,2605
Old Expanses----------(7):0327,0437,0516,0922,1229,2120,2228
Solomani Rim----------(5):0214,1207,2010,2812,2821

PROPOSED NEW WAY STATION LOCATIONS

The Marches, Solomani Rim, Old Expanses, and Reaver's Deep, due to the length
of time they have been published, recieve no changes.
  The only sectors on this list are ones I either had pre-Rebellion maps for,
or could reconstruct from rebellion maps.

Vland----(7):0234,0708,1717,2225,2232,2808,2926
Lishun---(9):0331,1006,1037,1220,1627,1914,1932,2309,2624
Core----(11):0402,0416,0622,1134,1418,1536,2118,2224,2401,2608,3034
Daibei---(6):0627,010,0922,1935,2419,2706
Magyar---(2):2810,3128


More to follow if I can get ahold of the Imperial-Era maps.

   Of course, by the time of the New Era, this is pretty much moot, but any-
one running a classic- or rebellion-era game might find it useful.

John H Bogan

jbogan@ic.sunysb.edu


  

------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5665
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 93 18:29:39 CST
From: Kerry Harrison <harrisok@ccmail.dell.com>
Subject: Dave Nilsen on Missiles in TNE

     This is excerpted from a reply made by Geo Gelinas on GEnie to another 
     player.  Thought y'all might be interested in it.
     
     =======
          I am enclosing in this post an except from a letter by Dave 
     Nilsen.  I hope it answers some of your questions about the nuclear 
     pumped missiles.  The actual yield of each weapon can be found on a 
     table in the starship weapon portion of the equipment section. Re: 
     nuclear detonation lasers. I understand your misgivings, and let me 
     say at the outset that your concerns about the overabundance of nukes 
     is well-taken. However, the use of the Imperial Laws of War to explain 
     why nukes were never used before was, I always thought, a very
     artificial and unsatisfactory device. Nukes would have been easily 
     obtainable at Imperial tech levels, as they are now. But we will need 
     to come up with more convincing reasons for why people don't use them 
     than the long arm of the law. I would think that the vivid example of 
     84 years of civil war and virus rampage (there are still hundreds or 
     thousands of radioactively hot worlds) might have convinced people to 
     be a little more thoughtful.
     
          Second, HE missiles and deadfall ordnance are still in wide use 
     for orbital bombardment. However, HE missiles just don't make any 
     sense at all for starship combat. I kept trying to keep them in, but 
     they always required a lot of unconvincing rationalizations that, at 
     the end, were only to retain HE missiles because we used to say that 
     there were HE missiles. Why don't they work?
     
          First of all, those eenie little 50 kg missiles we used to know 
     and love are a pathetic joke in a game that now uses reaction mass for 
     vector movement. A 50 kg missile has no capacity for maneuver, and 
     therefore no capacity to hit a target. Therefore, missiles need to be 
     bigger in order to have the range to hit targets at the range we used 
     to tell people they work at (remember how missiles were supposed to 
     work better at longer ranges, while lasers, etc., worked better at 
     short ranges?). Bigger missiles equal bigger targets for point defense 
     batteries, and equal fewer missiles carried by the firing vessel. Once 
     we worked out the physics required for lasers to hit targets at the 
     ranges we had always blithely assumed lasers could hit targets at, it
     became absolutely ludicrous to assume that a missile would ever get 
     close enough to its target to actually make physical contact with it, 
     as an HE missile would. All of a sudden, it was pointless for ships to 
     carry missiles at all, except for planetary bombardment. The only way 
     to keep missiles in the game at all was to make them detonation 
     lasers.  This also had the effect that Traveller will be easier to 
     dovetail with 2300 when the time comes, but this was a by-product of 
     the other requirements, not the cause for the decision.
     ======
     
     Kerry Harrison
     harrisok@ccmail.dell.com
     


------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5666
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 93 18:34:45 CST
From: Kerry Harrison <harrisok@ccmail.dell.com>
Subject: TNE Errata

     Someone was asking for submissions on errata for TNE a while back, I 
     found this on GEnies, thought it might be useful.
     
     ======
     Games RoundTable
     Category 11,  Topic 4
     Message 30        Sun Jun 13, 1993
     M.GELINAS [Geo]              at 04:04 EDT
      
     I previously sent the following to a number of people by e-mail.  I 
     post it here for the benefit of all.
     
     Comments on Traveller: The New Era
     
     Opening comments:
     
     Overall, Traveller: The New Era (TNE) is an excellent product.  The 
     writing is well done, information sections are concise and 
     informative, and the rules are remarkably detailed.  The artwork if 
     very good overall.  Some of the art is mediocre, and some of the art 
     was borrowed from previous products, but most of the work was good, 
     and there were a number of excellent pieces, including both the front 
     and back covers.
     
     I have made this overall observation up front, because the remainder 
     of this review will be general comments intended to improve an already 
     excellent product.  It is ever my intent to offer constructive 
     criticism to make Traveller a better game.  Therefore for each item 
     which I feel is a problem, I will offer a solution.  Since most of 
     these solutions will be similar, I will summarize them here and use an 
     abbreviated form in the text to save space.
     
     My recommended solutions area:
     
     Errata sheet - it is extremely difficult to produce a product the size 
     of TNE without some errors creeping in.  I recommend that an errata 
     sheet be published and made available to players. This sheet should 
     also be printed in Challenge magazine and included in the TNE Deluxe.
     
     Chart book - I recommend that some of the more important charts be 
     reprinted in a small (16 page or so) booklet form and include in TNE 
     Deluxe or be included in a TNE Screen. (I know that GDW is no longer 
     doing folios, but I think the demand for a TNE screen would warrant 
     the production of this product)
     
     Revised Character Generation Worksheet - I recommend a few things be 
     added to the Character Generation Worksheet.  It could be included in 
     Deluxe TNE or printed in Challenge.
     
     Page 17 - Homeworld Random Generation Table:  the DM chart is on the 
     next page making it easy to overlook and difficult to use.  
     Recommendation - put on the same page in Chart Book.
     
     Page 18 - Homeworld DM Table - with a DM of +9 for characters in the 
     wilds, it is not possible with a 2D6 roll to get a starport class D.  
     This will result in a lot of starport class X for characters in the 
     wilds.  While this is probably representative of the types of 
     starports there, it is probably not representative of the types of 
     worlds that the PC's will come from in the wilds.  Recommendation - 
     add a statement that the referee can lower the DM for the wilds or 
     mandate a specific starport. Errata Sheet.
     
     Page 18 - Homeworld DM Table - The DM for Old Expanses is HIGHER than 
     for a Pocket Empire.  Recommendation: This should be reversed. Errata 
     Sheet.
     
     Page 18 - Homeworld Characteristic Description Table - while specific
     descriptions for specific numbers can be found in the world building 
     section, no such correlation can be found anywhere for government 
     Type.  Below is my supposition:
     
     Description   Code Normal         Code Wilds 
           Low Gov       0 - 3              0 - 3 
           Mod Gov       4 - 5              4 - 5 
           High Gov      6 - 8              6 - 7 
           Ext Gov       9 +                8 +
     
     Since the only difference between Normal worlds and Wilds worlds 
     occurs at 8+, a uniform table could be built by making the Wilds 
     descriptions correspond to the normal description.
     
     Recommendation: Errata Sheet.
     
     Page 19 - Homeworld Effects on Attributes - buried in text. 
     Recommendation - Table in Chart Book and Note on Revised CG Worksheet.
     
     Page 23 - Background Skills - not noted on Character Generation Sheet. 
     Recommendation - Note on Revised CG Worksheet.
     
     Page 24 - Default Skills - buried in text.  Recommendation - Table in 
     Chart Book and Note on Revised CG Worksheet.
     
     Page 57 - Table of Ranks - Military Ranks - At only 1 promotion per 
     term, it will take a significant number of terms to achieve a higher 
     rank in military. While this may be reasonable for officers, it is not 
     for enlisted. Recommendation - Use shorter enlisted rank structure as 
     per T2K2.  Errata Sheet.
     
     Page 94 - Wilds careers - Recommend adding a Psionic Priesthood career 
     and a Survivalist Career.  The latter at least is one a PC in the 
     wilds would probably be interested in.  Publish in Challenge or in 
     Deluxe TNE.
     
     Page 172 - Ershur Data - the TPPG data for Towering has been shifted 
     to the left.  Recommendation - Errata Sheet.
     
     Page 186 - Step 4 - The planetary density table is way over on page 
     190.  Recommend adding a note.  Errata Sheet.
     
     Page 186 - World Size 2D6?  Have you dropped the -2? Recommendation - 
     Errata Sheet (if appropriate).
     
     Page 186 - Tech Level DM tables - From B on down, some of the columns 
     have been shifted.  The DM's for Atmosphere appear under World Size.  
     The -2 for one of the governments is also shifted.  Recommendation - 
     Errata Sheet.
     
     Page 187 - Has Lo been changed to a population of 4-? Recommendation 
     if not - Errata Sheet.
     
     Page 188 - Should Population of 0 be classified as Incidental to 
     coincide with the Homeworld Generation Table? This table also shows a 
     Population of 4 as Moderate which conflicts if Lo has been changed to 
     Pop of 4-. Recommendation - keep Lo at 3-, make Pop 0 incidental - 
     Errata Sheet.
     
     Page 189 - World Law Level 6 - "All Firearms except Firearms" 
     Recommendation - change the last firearms to rad "Shotguns".  Errata 
     Sheet.
     
     Page 189 - World Physical Data - describes a Hydrographics of 3 as 
     "Dry" this should be "Wet".  Recommendation - Errata Sheet.
     
     Page 201 - Fuel - Discusses multiple fuel vehicles, but none are 
     listed in the book.  Recommendation - if any of the vehicles in the 
     book can use multiple fuels, add codes by Errata Sheet.  If not, 
     publish some multiple fuel vehicles in a future product.
     
     Page 228 - 229 - Starship Encounters - The DM's for ship encounters in 
     the Wilds would seem to produce an alarming number of Vampire ships. 
     Recommendation - adding note to the effect that the referee should not 
     feel obligated to implement a vampire, but treat the encounter as "No 
     Encounter" if he choses.  Errata Sheet.
     
     Page 237 - There are some worlds which do not have any trade codes.  
     This page does not indicate which table should be used in such a case. 
      Recommendation - add a note that if a world has no trade codes, use 
     the last table.  Errata Sheet.
     
     Page 258 - Recommend creating a set of charts showing the effects of 
     different power levels for psionic skills - Chart Book.
     
     Page 261 - Last paragraph in second column should probably have "Main
     Armament" in italics in front of it. Recommendation - Errata Sheet.
     
     Page 262 - Observation - I think LSP modeled their guard bot after 
     Zhodani Warbots.
     
     Page 302 - Vehicle Collision Examples - (95 x 2)/10 = 19 not 35. 
     Recommendation - Errata Sheet.
     
     Page 349 - Missiles are now riotously expensive.  Recommend adding 
     standard HE missiles in Starship Combat Game and Technical 
     Architecture.
     
     General Recommendation - create a supplement "Small Arms of the 
     Universe". Also, I would like to see the return of the 9mm ACR - it 
     was one of my favorite types of weapons since Mercenary.
     
     Page 357 - Grenades - Does not list 4cm Ram grenades for use with 
     weapons with integral grenade launchers. Recommendation - list on 
     Errata Sheet.
     
     Page 358 - Armor - Reflec has disappeared.  With the new lower 
     penetration personal lasers, most armor will stop lasers.  However, it 
     would be handy to have an armor specifically designed to stop lasers.  
     Given an armor value of 0, reflec could do this.  You might lower the 
     price some to make it more cost effective.  Recommendation - return 
     reflec with an armor value of 0 and lower price.  Errata Sheet.
     
     Page 359 - Armor - The combat environment suit has no associated 
     helmet.  Such a suit should have a visored helmet which does not 
     appear on the table until TL 10. Recommendation add a visored helmet 
     at TL 9 (AV 1 is fine) for the Combat Environment Suit -or- make it an 
     integral part of the suit adding H (head) to the coverage codes. 
     Errata Sheet.
     
     Page 368 - Free Trader Damage Tables - You have 5 - 9 listed for the 
     Cargo Hold, but then later you have 5 - 13 listed for Eng.  Then you 
     have 17, 18, and 20 with nothing. Recommendation - Errata Sheet.
     
     Page 375 - Survey Ship Damage Tables - what is area 12's internal 
     damage? Recommendation - Errata Sheet.
     
     Page 376 - Subsidized Liner Damage Tables - 13 is duplicated.  
     Recommendation - Errata Sheet.
     
     Page 377 - Merc Cruiser Damage Tables - 12 is duplicated. 
     Recommendation - Errata Sheet.
     
     Character Sheet - has no place for Homeworld Starport. Recommend 
     adding to updated Character Sheet.
     
     Character Sheet - recommending adding a back for such items as 
     equipment weapons, contacts.  Currently, I am copying the back of the 
     DC character sheet for use with TNE and find it works quite well.
     
     Note:  The comments about missiles were written before Dave Nilsen 
     sent a comment about missiles in TNE.  I have come to accept his 
     ruling on this.
     
     Yours for Traveller,
     
     Geo
     ======
     
     Also, I've noticed that the TNE rules only list RAM Shoot-Through 
     Grenades.  It seems that the regular Hand Grenade variety got left 
     out.
     
     Kerry Harrison
     harrisok@ccmail.dell.com


------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5667
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 5659-5666 V56#20 
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 93 19:12:34 -0700
From: gwh@lurnix.COM


Two replies in one, economy of email 8-)

- --
From: wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: Not to open this flamewar again ...

>In any case, I called Dave Nilsen and asked him (without filling him in on
>this discussion, and without outlining our various scenarios to him) how
>the "Fusion Rockets" in T:TNE worked.  I did mention that I was concerned
>about radiation and hot plasma effects.

>Dave's answer was that the drive uses a heat exchange system to heat LH2
>in the thrust chamber using energy from the fusion reactor.  No fusion,
>no radiation, no massive damage.

>There you have it; it's not physics (but then again, the "new era" space
>drives obey physics about as much as the thruster plates and agaility
>generators of MegaTraveller --- as Bertil pointed out, its about as sane
>as arguing if AD&D "Magic Missiles" travel on a ballistic path).  It is
>however, a playable game mechanic.

That's nice.  Except that to have the fuel consumtions he lists
the "just hot hydrogen" has to be moving at like 0.55 C... ARGH!
THRUSTER PLATES WERE BETTER, we couldn't criticize them abotu
anything 8-)

I give up.  I'll stop thinking about the drives until I have a fit
when the tech manual comes out. 8-)

- --
From: Stewart Eyres <spe@jb.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Retcon?

>NEGATIVE MATTER

We hashed around with this in some of the TDR discussions of
a year or so ago.  Yes, it's been thought of.  It didn't seem
to be any better a intertialess drive than a foo-on field, though,
so we dropped it.  Bob Forward notwithstanding. 8-)

- -george william herbert



------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5668
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 93 22:38:44 EDT
From: Colin Roald <colin@callisto.pas.rochester.edu>
Subject: Negative Matter

Since we have enough wireheads on this group to appreciate it, I'll fill in
Stewart's explanation of negative matter.

> NEGATIVE MATTER

> Negative matter simply has *negative* mass, so that the force is negative, or 
> *repels* all other matter.  This is *not* anti-matter, which so far only has 
> been found with positive mass.

Not only that, but you stick a negative number into *every* mass-dependent
formula, so that, eg, when a negative mass accelerates, its momentum
and energy *decrease*.

> In some book I read (I can't remember the name, but can find out), someone 
> proposed a spaceship drive which involved mounting a plate of negative matter
> next to a plate of positive matter, and then charging the two.  The result is

It was Robert Forward. I read his article in Analog; it may have been
printed elsewhere also.

> a forward force, although I'm not sure why.

OK, here's what happens. (I don't remember any need for electric forces,
though.)

Start with Universal Gravitation--it now looks like Coulomb's law, with 
a negative sign, so like mass charges attract, and opposite mass charges
repel.  If you've got two plates, you get

Forces:
> 	    	__        __
> 		| |       | |
> 		| |	  | |
> 	     <--|+|	  |-|-->
> 		| |       | |
> 		| |	  | |

Now, the cool part. Newton's second law is *also* affected, so if you 
push on a chunk of negative matter, it accelerates *toward* you!

Thus we get acceleration that looks like this:

> 	    	__        __
> 		| |       | |
> 		| |	  | |
> 	     <--|+|    <--|-|
> 		| |       | |
> 		| |	  | |

That is, if you leave equal masses of positive and negative matter 
sitting next to each other, they tend to accelerate off uniformly
along the line of their centres of mass--howdy reactionless Drive!

Note that no conservation laws are broken, because the increase in
energy and momentum of the positive mass is exactly balanced by a
decrease in the energy and momentum of the negative mass.

Aha! I've just figured out where electric charge would come into it.
The key to the effect is the perverse reaction of negative matter
to an applied force, and since electric forces are 40 orders
of magnitude stronger than gravity, you can generate the force much
more easily with two oppositely electrically charged plates, one of
which being negative matter (though as I recall, Forward's actual
design used storage rings for reasons of practicality. He also got
some bonus out of the geometry of that arrangement, but I don't 
recall what it was.)



- --
colin | she told me to read between the lines and tell her exactly what i
roald | got out of it. i told her 'affection' has two f's.   (sloan)

------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5669
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Dave Nilsen on Deckplans
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 13:53:35 +0200 (MET DST)

  From AABP 21: 

  He writes that GDW is changing the standard deckplan grid to 2x2m, and that 
the assumption now is that one such square is 1t displacement (2 x 2 x 3.5 = 14
(the new-tons)) to make them fit into the standard combat grid of TTNE.
  Most of the increased overhead is spent on floors thick enough to fit all 
cabling, grav plates etc into them.
  "Just because there is a standard scale does not mean that ships will
be designed to fit their bulkheads exactly along the grid lines"

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5670
Date:     Tue, 15 Jun 93 14:52:05 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@cbda8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  Dave Nilsen on Missiles in TNE

Kerry Harrison <harrisok@ccmail.dell.com> transferred the following from GEnie:

> Subject: Dave Nilsen on Missiles in TNE
>      ... However, the use of the Imperial Laws of War to explain 
>      why nukes were never used before was, I always thought, a very
>      artificial and unsatisfactory device. Nukes would have been easily 
>      obtainable at Imperial tech levels, as they are now. But we will need 
>      to come up with more convincing reasons for why people don't use them 
>      than the long arm of the law. I would think that the vivid example of 
>      84 years of civil war and virus rampage (there are still hundreds or 
>      thousands of radioactively hot worlds) might have convinced people to 
>      be a little more thoughtful.


Hmmm...this reminds me.  Have nuclear dampers been phased out of the TNE
rules?  If not, radioactive clean-up could proceed fairly quickly.

Personally, I've never had a problem with the Imperial Law angle, since 
the existence of some sort of (undefined for the most part) law enforcement
in the Imperium was used as a deterrent threat for a lot of activities.

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5671
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: Retcon
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 21:26:04 +0200 (MET DST)

> From: Stewart Eyres <spe@jb.man.ac.uk>
> Subject: Retcon?
> 
> Echoing Bruce, what does retcon mean?

  Retcon, short for Retroconceive(?) is a word that was was invented by
persons unknown on the rec.arts.comics newsgroup on Usenet.

  It means changing something that has already been established.
 
  For example (since it was invented on rec.arts.comics I'll use a comics
example:), Chris Claremont want to do an Xmen/AD&D crossover, and to get 
a lead-in to the story he decides that Storm is a half-Drow, that is a retcon,
because it has previously been established that she isn't.

  Revealing things that has previously been hidden (like Norris right hand,
and the Aslan engigma) isn't retcons. Neither is providing more detail on
a subject that previously been undefined. 

  But saying that 99% of the commerce of the commerce of the Imperium was
transported in unmanned unpowered barges with a hull grid, that was launched
from space stations that held the powerplant and actual jump drive, and
claiming that the players somehow never noticed all those big barges with
'Tukera' lables on them, that's a retcon.

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5672
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 00:45:27 CST
From: Kerry Harrison <harrisok@ccmail.dell.com>
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 5660-5664 V57#1

     Anyone have a complete listing of all the Traveller and MegaTraveller 
     products that Digest Group Publications (DGP) produced?  If so could, 
     you please post a copy of it here are email it to me?
     
     Thanks,
     Kerry Harrison
     harrisok@ccmail.dell.com


------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5673
Date:     Thu, 17 Jun 93 9:07:45 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@cbda8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  TNS Announcement

Terra/Solomani Rim, 167-1993(Old style):

     In a special press conference today, veteran naval architect Robert
Dean was pleased to announce the completion of the prototype of his latest
design.  He modestly gave most of the credit to his wife, Margaret, who
collaborated closely with him on the nine-month project.  "We're calling
this one William Stewart Dean", he said, "and at 7 lbs 14 oz, I realize 
it's a lot smaller than some of my previous work, such as the Atlantis class
battleship.  In fact, it's only 20" long along the primary axis, and the
suspension and power train system seems to be subject to a great deal of
random motion at the moment, but we expect that will improve as the design
matures."
     Other industry leaders declined to comment on the new design, except
to suggest that it wasn't going to replace the air/raft anytime soon.


------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5674
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: TNS Announcement
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 21:42:52 +0200 (MET DST)

  Congratulations!

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5675
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 11:43:30 EDT
From: kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de
Subject: Character Damage Sheet :)

Hello fellow Travellers,

the following sheet was my first idea, when I read the TNE damage rules
for personal combat. I recommend to use two sheets per character, one for
the minor damage and one for the serious wounds. The sheet is done for
a character with maximum CON and STR.

- ---------------------------------- Cut here ---------------------------------

                _Head_      Head:    2 x Con
               /oooooo\     Chest:   3 x (Con+Str)
              /oooooooo\    Abdomen: 2 x (Con+Str)
              |oooooooo|    Arms:    2 x (Con+Str) both
              \oooooooo/    Legs:    2 x (Con+Str) both
    /-RA---^-----Chest----^---LA-\
   /oooooo|oooooooooooooooo|oooooo\     Hit Location Table (Biped):
  /ooooooo|oooooooooooooooo|ooooooo\     Die(D10)  Location
 /oooooooo|oooooooooooooooo|oooooooo\  ----------------------------
|oooooo/   \oooooooooooooo/   \oooooo|      1         Head
|oooooo|   |oooooooooooooo|   |oooooo|      2         Right Arm
|oooooo|   \oooooooooooooo/   |oooooo|      3         Left Arm
|oooooo|   /-----Abd.-----\   |oooooo|      4         Chest
|oooooo|  |oooooooooooooooo|  |oooooo|      5         Abdomen
|oooooo|  |oooooooooooooooo|  |oooooo|      6         Abdomen
|o o o/   |oooooooooooooooo|   \o o o|      7         Right Leg
         /  \oooooooooooo/  \               8         Right Leg
        / RL \----------/ LL \              9         Left Leg
       |oooooo|        |oooooo|            10         Left Leg
       |oooooo|        |oooooo|
       |oooooo|        |oooooo| Comments:
       |oooooo|        |oooooo|   Table assumes front/rear shot
       |oooooo|        |oooooo|   Side Shot: Far side hit equals near side hit
       |oooooo|        |oooooo| Prone Target:
       |oooooo|        |oooooo|   Table assumes top shot.
       |oooooo|        |oooooo|   Side Shot: Far side hit equals near side hit
       |oooooo|        |oooooo|   Front Shot: Leg or abdomen hit equals miss.
       |oooooo|        |oooooo|   Rear Shot: Head, arm, or chest equals miss.
- ---------------------------------- Cut here ---------------------------------

I add the Hit Location Table from the TNE-Rulebook. That is one thing I
didn't like at the rulebook, it doesn't have an appendix with all important
tables, nor can I find a table index to find the existing tables. Does
anybody know, if there is a GM-Screen in the planning?

Juergen

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Juergen Kirsch
Institut fuer Informatik, Universitaet Bonn
Germany
kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de

------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5676
From: Sean Maguire <smaguire@mihi.une.edu.au>
Subject: William Stewart Dean - Stats
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 16:17:47 GMT-10:00

Robert forgot to give the old stats for it


		The William Stewart Dean

   Craft ID:Type SC (Small Child), TL 8, CR ?
       Hull: 1/2, Dip = 0.001, Armour 1F (Flesh)
       Loco: Legs (*2), Duration=6hours (recharge =12h)
       Comm: Mouth
    Sensors: None as yet . . . . . . 
        Off: Scream 
        Def: Def Mod + 2
    Control: Undeveloped brain mark 1
      Accom: Can fit a few marbles etc (trust me, It will eat something
            inedible soon . . . )
      Other: Fuel = Heinz Baby Food (Apple & Blackcurrent)

Notes : The IISS has 60,000 of these vehicles stationed on Diioysus
        class tankerrs in the Spinward Marches.
	NEEDS EXTENSIVE MAINTENANCE FOR AT LEAST ANOTHER 18 YEARS (Robert,
	Post Natal depression can now kick in)
  	 
        Design Concieved at . . . well thats up to Robert

	Congrats to the missus and yerselves

	Edmund and Bsercomb



------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5677
Date: 18 Jun 93 14:57:39 EDT
From: Mark Watson <100022.3361@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: TNS announcement

Rob,
Many congratulations. Looks like June 17 was a good day for Traveller 
fans. I also have an announcement:

Rebecca Hope Watson, 7lb 14oz

Unfortunately my wife forced me to discard the name I generated on the 
Vilani word generator. 

Mark




------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5678
Subject: Re: TNS announcement
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 13:45:27 -0700
From: gwh@lurnix.COM


Congratulations, Rob! 8-)

May the three wise Droyne come visit blessings upon him ;-)

- -george




------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5679
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 22:23:06 -0700
From: Kelly St.Clair <kstclair@jacobs.CSOS.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: TNS announcement


> the arrival of the Three Wise Droyne

No, six!  *Always* six.

Which reminds me.  When are you going to cast the coyns for him?


- ----------------------------
Kelly St.Clair (Daydreamer)
kstclair@jacobs.csos.orst.edu.
                             ^- oops, no . !

------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5680
Date: 	Sat, 19 Jun 1993 05:38:55 -0230
From: Anthony Neal <anthonyn@ODIE.CS.MUN.CA>
Subject: Scout/Courier...

Hello out there:

	I've been busy again. I got YET ANOTHER Scout/Courier Vessel for the 
minions. I must admit that it is a remake of a previously released Scout
Vessel, but that one was Air Frame, and I made mine to resemble the version
in the Imperial Encyclopedia. I have deck plans that are done in Xfig, and
were made originally for the Air Frame Model, before I realized it was air
frame. So, here's the version the deck plans comply to...


Type SK Scout/Courier TL11

	The Tech Level 11 of the familiar Scout/Courier was the first to mount 
thruster Maneuver Drives, ensuring deep space exploration ability. The sensor
suite consists of the usual EMS sensors, with the addition of a Neutrino
Sensor and a High Penetration Densitometer. Provision for Frontier Refuelling
is made with the addition of a Fuel Purification unit and fuel scoops. A full
environmental suite is provided, but due to the cramped conditions on board
any Scout/Courier Vessel, true comfort is still impossible. A 4 ton vehicle
bay is provided, and typically either a Brumby or Bear Tracked Exploration
Vehicle is provided. Cost listed is prototype cost, not including subcraft.

CraftID: Scout/Courier, Type SK, TL 11, MCr 55.8
   Hull: 90/225, Disp=100, Config=1SL, Armor=40E
         Unloaded=1282 tons, Loaded=1570 tons
  Power: 6/12, Fusion=504MW, Duration=30/90
   Loco: 5/10, Maneuver=2, 3/6, Jump=2, Top=2120 kph
         Cruise=1590 kph, NOE=150 kph, Agility=0
   Comm: Radio=System, Laser=System, Maser=System
Sensors: Active EMS=Far Orbit, EMS Jammer=Far Orbit,
         Passive EMS=Interstellar, Neutrino=1 GW,
         High Pen Densitometer=1m,
         ActObjScn=Routine,    ActObjPin=Routine,
         PasObjScn=Formidable, PasObjPin= Formidable,
         PasEngScn=Difficult,  PasEngPin=Formidable
    Off: Hardpoints=1

         Missile  = x01
         Batt         1
         Bear         1

    Def: DefDM=+3,

         Sandcaster = x01
         Batt           1
         Bear           1

Control: Computer=Model/2*3, Panel=Dynamic Linked * 261,
         Special=HUD*2
 Accomm: Crew=2 (Pilot/Engineer, Gunner/Commander), Passengers=6,
         Staterooms=4, Environ= BEnv, BLS, ExtLS, Grav Plates, I/C
         Airlocks *2
  Other: Fuel=396 kl (1 Jump-2 + 30 days), Cargo=269 kl, Fuel Scoops,
         Fuel Purifier=12 hours, Subcraft=1*4ton, ObjSize=Average,
         EmLevel=Faint


"Bear" Tracked Scout Exploration Vehicle

  CraftID: Tracked Scout Exploration Vehicle, TL 11, MCr 1.498
     Hull: 4/9, Disp=4, Config=4USL, Armor=10D, Unloaded=16.2 tons,
           Loaded=31.5 tons
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=4.0 Mw, Duration=30/90
     Loco: 1/2, Tracks, P/W=127, Road=246 kph, Offroad=148
     Comm: Radio=Continental(5000 km), LaserComm=Continental(5000 km),
           MaserComm=Planetary(50,000 km)
  Sensors: Headlights*4, ActiveEMS=Continental(5000 km), PassiveEMS=Continental
           (5000 km), Magnetic=V.Distant, Synthetic Vision,
           ActObjScn=Difficult, ActObjPin=Difficult, PasObjScn=Formidable,
           PasEngScn=Formidable
      Off: Hardpoints=1, Weapon Stabilization to 120 kph


                        Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
             Ammo  Rds  Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
  2 Mw PL-8   --    -   12/2     5    Dist(5)  3      3      H     80

      Def: -
  Control: Computer=Model/0, Panel=Dynamic Linked*32
    Accom: Crew=2 (Driver, Commander/Gunner), Passengers=6, Seats=Adequate*8,
           Env=Basic Env, Basic LS, Extended LS, Airlock
    Other: Fuel=4.32 Kl, Cargo=15 Kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate

    Having been a great success in use by lower Tech Levels, the Bear IISS
Tracked Scout Exploration Vehicle was redesigned for use in Vaccum conditions.
With a starship quality air-lock, and total life support, the Bear is
considered to be the equivalent of a light tank in use with the Scout Service.
Protection is provided by a single 2 Mw Pulse Laser, mounted on top of the
vehicle in a closed turret. Capable of carrying 6 passengers, the seats can be
removed to provide extra cargo room, sacrificing the speed of the vehicle. The
removal of 5 seats would allow the installation of a singular bunk. The
plant provides an additional 1 Mw of excess power. Additional Panels will be
necessary for add-on equipment.


	I have reposted the Bear Tracked Exploration vehicle as it was originally
conceived for this vessel, and as such belongs with it. To the designer of the
Air Frame version, hope I haven't offended.

	Deck Plans will be along soon, a few minor enhancements are necessary. 
They won't be as neat as Bertil's plans, but I do the best I can. :)

	Ciao, 
	Anthony

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anthony Neal                 |"Lets bring up the cargo manifest. 2300 laser 
anthonyn@odie.cs.mun.ca      | pistols, 1600 laser rifles, 1 ATV, 67 suits of
Memorial University Of       | combat armor and...    What the hell are 
Newfoundland                 | 'tribbles'?"
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5681
Subject: Re: Character Damage Sheet
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 93 19:50:49 +1000
From: Pauli <grue@cs.uq.oz.au>

hi,

Firstly, congratulations to both the Deans and the Watsons.  I wish all of
you all the best with your brats!


Juergen Kirsch wrote:
>the following sheet was my first idea, when I read the TNE damage rules
>for personal combat. I recommend to use two sheets per character, one for
>the minor damage and one for the serious wounds. The sheet is done for
>a character with maximum CON and STR.

Oh no!  Has Traveller degenerated into a thinly disguised variant of
Battle Tech? (-:  Damage sheets with lots of little boxes to cross out.  Next
we'll have a fatigue (heat) table that makes life more difficult for the
players up the scale, finally reaching the 'collapse and do nothing further
when the top end is reached'.  Thankfully, traveller doesn't permit people
to go around with hundreds of weapons strapped to their arms and legs and to
be able to fire them :-)



Mark Watson wrote:

>Unfortunately my wife forced me to discard the name I generated on the 
>Vilani word generator. 

Anybody want a hiver name generator?  I could throw together one that only
includes voice output pretty quickly!  :-)





        						Pauli

Paul Dale                       | grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Department of Computer Science  | +61 7 365 2445
University of Queensland        |
Australia, 4072                 | Did you know that there are 41 two letter
                                |     words containing the letter 'a'?

------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5682
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Postjump System Generation
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1993 15:54:41 +0200 (MET DST)

  First of all, my congratulations to the Watsons.

> From: jdriver@netlink.cts.com (John Driver)

>         Okay, so there are only four orbits available.  What do I do when I
> roll four gas giants, three empty orbits, planetoid belts, etc for this
> system?  There is simply no place to put them all.
>  
> 3)  What happens when you roll all the habitable zones as being empty?
> Scrap the system and start over?

  What I usually do when I generate systems after published data is that
I adapt the results to fit what I already know.

  Say for example that I have a system like this:

Dusbur	1023	C445685-A S [classes ignored]	615 K1 V

  I start by rolling for orbits (-2 for a K) and rolls 6, -2 this is 4. 
Since there is 5 GG's and 1 belt, that is too little so I increase the # of
orbits to 6. 
  A K0 V has 2 inner 1 habitable and the rest outer orbits. GG's should be in
outer orbits, and belts preferrably just inside a GG, so the total number of
orbits has to be increased to 7 (one GG in the habitable zone, and the belt
just inside it). Then I roll for the sizes of the GG's.
  The system now looks like this:

primary	K1 V
0	I	?
1	I	belt
2	H	SGG
3	O	LGG
4	O	SGG
5	O	SGG
6	O	SGG

  Then I roll for number of moons, getting 0, 10, 5, 2, and 6. This is a 
problem because the mainworld has to be at orbit 2. If it had been larger
than the maximum size of a SGG moon (6), I would have put it as a captured 
planet at 1.8 to 2.2 aprox, but since it is smaller than this, I put it
as a moon to the SGG in orbit 2 even though it shouldn't have any moons, and
add two rings just for the hell of it.

  If the players want to know what's at orbit 0, or the sizes of all moons,
I'll generate it when they ask.

  (BTW: looking at the probabilities, the rounded relation between the 
number of rings, size S moons and size 1+ moon are:
  For LGG's: 10/10/80
  For SGG's: 10/30/60 )

> 4)  Step #13-20, Orbit Zones
>         Say I have a G3 star.  Do I round down to G0, or do I use G5?

  Whichever you think fits the story best IMHO:)
  
> 5)  This one really gets to me.  For a number of the steps in the 
> Mainworld
> Generation and Extended System Generation systems, it is possible to roll
> values outside of those listed, and most of the time you are not told 
> what
> to do when this happens. 

  There's a lot of "-7"'s missing in that chapter.

> INTERNET:  jdriver@netlink.cts.com (John Driver)

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."


------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5683
From: John H Bogan <jbogan@libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu>
Subject: Upcoming TNE Support
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 93 20:52:32 EDT

     I came upon GDW's flyer "Understanding Traveller:the New Era",
a 4-page thing only one of which is of interest, which list some of
the upcoming support material.

The TECHNICAL ARCHITECTURE book will not only have design formulae
for vehicles, spacecraft (yes, the flyer says this will be in the TA
book.I hope I can believe this), weapons, sensors,"and more."
It will also examine technology not normally found in the Traveller universe.
This we already knew. However, the TA book will also have a section with
"a layman'sexplanation of the _real_ science behind the numbers in Traveller,
addressing issues such as acceleration, gravity, power generation,
laser light dispersion, and much more." Included in the flyer are two
illustrations which I presume are from this section, one a cutaway view
of a vacc suit helmet, hilighting the systems inside, and one of what
I guess is a snub pistol. The illustrations look good, but I tremble at
hearing the "real science" part. We shall see....

STARSHIP COMBAT will be released as a boardgame, basically an expansion
of the basic rules and "useful for single ship encounters as well as
squadron actions".

REAVERS is the first region sourcebook, "is rich in adventure material
and background, covering the Old Expanses where the Star Vikings are based,
their Hiver patrons, and The Wilds they have sworn to tame." Apparently,
the Star Vikings have also apropriated the name "reavers" as well, which
fits my view of them just fine.  But, of course, REAL reavers are native
to the Deep.

CHALLENGE will be devoting more space to Traveller.

MINIATURES from RAFM, 25mm scale, as well as detailed starship miniatures.

NOVELS: the tie-in novel strikes Traveller. Or at least it will. Apparently
this is in too early a stage to say much about it.


John H Bogan
jbogan@ic.sunysb.edu

Does anyone have a program that supports the olfactory portion of K'Kree
name generation?  :-)


------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5684
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: House Rules 1: Successes
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 15:31:37 +0200 (MET DST)

  Sometimes in the past I have bemoaned the lack of a Tk2k/DC mailinglist, so
now I'll take advantage of the opportunity:)

  Slightly modified success/failure task system:

  As it now stands, a roll ten or more over the modified asset is a 
catastrophic failure *if* a new roll against the modified asset fails. On the
other hand, any roll of ten or more below the modified asset is an outstanding
success.

  This means that if you have an asset of more than 10, you'll never suffer
a catastrophic failure, and if you have less than 10, you'll never get a
outstanding success, a state of affairs that I wasn't satisfied with.


  The modification is to allow a 1 or a 20 to stand in for the ten or more
above/below roll, and at the same time hang a second roll after the 1:
  A roll of ten or more below the modified asset is an outstanding success.
  If the modified asset is lower than 10, a roll of 1 is an outstanding 
success *if* a new roll against the modified asset yeilds a success.
  A roll of ten or more above the modified asset (or a roll of 20, if the
modified asset is higher than 10) is a catastrophic failure *if* a new roll
against the modified asset fails.

  [I planned to hang a list of probabilities here for the standard and 
modified system, but it looks like I left it at home. I'll try to send it
in before TML goes out tonight:)]

- -bertil- 
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5685
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 13:57 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Games in Traveller

Howdy all,

Well, I was pondering the thread of shipboard high tech games when
I suddenly realized this was the perfect venue for one of my dad's
old sea stories from the 1950's USN.  :-)

The Saga of The Esther Williams Trophy:
Back in 1072, there was a very attractive young holovid star Esther
Williams (of pure Solomani heritage) who was engaged to an Ensign
in the Darrian Confederation Navy.  His name and story are
unimportant, however, his fiancee gave him a marvelous present that
has been handed down through the years and sparked the imaginations
of Starship wardrooms for many many years.  She gave him a large
holographic plate of her curvaceous self inscribed "All my love,
Esther".

Sadly for the Ensign, the romance went sour, but his loss was the
gain of ship crews everywhere.  When it was known that the holo had
lost its romantic appeal, (and perhaps in an attempt to get a rise
out of the sulking Ensign) a shipmate stole it.  However, it was
then quickly discovered that the owner no longer wanted the holo
back.  It was then stolen by another shipmate.  Soon, a free for
all of epic proportions broke out aboard the Darrain ship with
officers stealing the holo back and forth.

Eventually, the holograph was taken by an officer when he was
transferred off ship.  The original ship made attempts to steal the
holo plate back triggering reprocussions throughout civilized
space.  The holo became the most desired object in the Darrian
fleet.  Ship crews began to hatch devilish schemes to possess the
holo.

The Holograph became a trophy.  It was then that the rules of the
game evolved.  It was encased in armored plastic with flotation
attached and a small passive transponder to prevent its being lost
in space.

It was in 1075 that the trophy first crossed over into Imperial
hands when Admiral Bertil (For whom the class of Q-ships was named)
let it be known that any Imperial crew which managed to steal the
trophy would not exactly meet with his disapproval.  Since then the
holo has been in and out of Imperial hands during various points of
history.  It has crossed into the hands of the Arden Confederation,
The Sword Worlds, and even accidently into the Zhodani Consulate
when the carrying ship was captured.

The rules of the game are simple:

The trophy must be displayed in the owning ship's wardroom.
The trophy may not be bolted down.
Only officers may participate in guarding or stealing the trophy.
No weapons are permitted to be used.

A holodisk accompanies the trophy on which the accounts and details
of how the trophy was stolen are transcribed for history.

On one occasion in 1093, the destroyer Dildano was in possession of
the trophy.  She was docked at Regina highport when the officers of
the scoutship Caliban boarded her.  The crew of the Caliban had
timed their attack to coincide with a general liberty for Dildano's
crew.  There were only four officers aboard at the time.  When the
intruder alarm went up the Dildano crew sprang for the wardroom and
barricaded themselves inside.  Not to be outdone, Caliban's crew
barricaded the officers inside the wardroom from the OUTside.

Caliban's crew then undocked Dildano from the station and fired her
engines briefly to break orbit.  As the destroyer spiraled in
closer to Regina's atmosphere, Caliban's crew prepared to bail out.
They offered the Dildano officers the chance to regain the bridge
if they would surrender the trophy.  Knowing they were beaten, they
surrendered before the ship would surely be destroyed.

Another account was from the log of the battleship Atlantis in 1104
when she was attacked by the crew of the carrier Lexington.  The
Atlantis was in highport in Efate.  It being well known that a high
proportion of starport workers in Efate are vargr.  A vargr Ensign
from the Lexington was kitted out with the ID and uniform of an
Efate starport worker.  He stole aboard the Atlantis and made his
way to the wardroom.

The officers of the Atlantis were sipping coffee when there was
suddenly a huge commotion in the passageway.  A starport worker
barking excitedly in gveug burst through the iris valve pointing
back out as black smoke came pouring through.  The officers hit the
fire alarm and rushed to their stations.

The Ensign had his chance, he grabbed the trophy and tore off
toward one of the starboard airlocks.  However he was quickly
followed by a mob of angry officers who had just found his brace of
smoke bombs.  He barely made it to the airlock, threw the trophy
inside and hit the emergency cycle button.  The trophy was blown
into space to a waiting ship's boat from the Lexington.

As the ship's boat closed in to make the pickup, the Atlantis
powered up her starboard repulsors and EMS-Jammers in an attempt to
force Lexington's crew to bring the trophy aboard.  Atlantis
officers jumped ship in vac suits to attempt recovery but were
beaten to the target by the Lexington's boat.

Lexington's boat took off at full speed, pursued by the Atlantis'
cutter.  A high speed chase ensued.  Lexington's boat dove into
Efate's atmosphere, followed closely by Atlantis' cutter.  As the
two approached the surface, Lexington's boat submerged in the
ocean.  Atlantis' cutter attempted to follow but quickly lost
contact.  She rose out of the water and began a search pattern.

All of a sudden, they regained contact as Lexington's boat surfaced
and landed at an underground monorail station along the shore.
Atlantis' cutter made an emergency landing at the platform just in
time to see Lexington's officers disappearing underground.

Two days later, the vargr Ensign was released by the Atlantis crew.
He was hailed as the hero of the operation, and received a personal
recommendation from the Lexington's captain when he went before the
promotion board later that year.

The trophy has acquired an aura of legend around it.  It has been
ascribed almost magical powers as a good luck charm for the ship
which carries it.  (Possibly because the Admirals smile on the
activity as promoting morale aboard ship and give choice
assignments to those smart enough to capture it.)

So you see, you don't need all those guns to have fun with Trav...
:-)

Scott 2G Kellogg
(BTW:  Does anyone out there know what happened to the REAL Esther
Williams Trophy?  If you do, PLEASE let know. :-)

------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5686
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 16:29:00 -0400
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@interlan.interlan.com>
Subject: TNE ramblings...



  I've been going over my copy of the TNE book for a couple of weeks now.
My overall impression is good.  Only a few minor gripes.  

  One is the reduction in passanger space in the 100 Scout class starship.
According to my Classic Traveller book, the thing has 4 staterooms, each 
capabile of double occupency.  Eight was a nice number for a team of 
adventures.  Now you are down to two double occupency staterooms.  Total of 
four adventures in the ship.  A little thin for a good sized gaming group.
Hopefully this will be corrected in the 150 ton `stretch' scout used in the
Regency as a `Quarantine Cutter'. (Pg 169).

  On page 341, in the text describing the Data-Display Recorder Headpeice, 
Commdots and multiplexers are mentioned.  There are however no entries for
multiplexers or commdots.  Confusing to the first time Traveller player.

  Challange magazine #69 has an ad for the T:TNE `Starship Combat' game on 
page 27.  Item number 0302, retail list price of $26.  Bullets are:

	- Vector-based movement
	- Detailed hit locations and damage resolution
	- Lasers, particle accelerators, meson guns and detonation 
		laser missles
	- Extensive ship ratings, including pre-Collapse warships
	- Complete starship design squence, usable with both the game and the
		roleplaying game.

  Is the Technical Archtecture going to be 0301?  Anybody have a better 
release date than `July'?

  One thing I found missing was reflect and ablative armor.  No Anti-laser 
armor is a big hole that needs to be pluged.

  Grenades were mentioned in the rules, but no examples given or even a listing
the weaponary listings (except for RAMs).  I've got GDW's Heavy Weapons book,
so I've got examples at least.

  That's it for my first fast & dirty run through...I've got some ideas for
campains, but I'm going to reread my copy of H. Beam Piper's `Space Vikings'
first...

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  \      oo    				Mark Urbin   Racal-Interlan
   \____|\mm   "Vouf, Vouf!"		These opinions are mine, no one 
   // //\ \_\  				will claim them...
  /K-9/  \/_/  				urbin@interlan.com
 /___/_____\   				eclipse@world.std.com
 ----------- 	  Where am I going and what am I doing in this handbasket?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 473
Archive-Message-Number: 5687
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 17:13:29 -0400
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@interlan.interlan.com>
Subject: Picture of Aslan in TNE sourcebook...


Is it just me or does anybody else think that picture looks like Commander
Will Riker of ST:TNG?  Body posturing...scowl...beard...

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Urbin  Racal-Interlan   Boxborough, MA  These opinions are mine.
"Count Erskyll said nothing for a moment. He was opposed to the use of force.
Force, he believed, was the last resort of incompetence; he had said so 
often enough since this operation had begun. Of course, he was absolutely 
right, though not in the way he meant. Only the incompetent wait until the
last extremity to use force, and by then, it is usually too late to use 
anything, even prayer." -- _A Slave Is A Slave_ by H. Beam Piper
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 22:00:04 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #474: Msgs 5688-5697 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed Jun 30 22:00:03 EDT 1993
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 22:00:04 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #474: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 474  5688 22-Jun-1993 kirsch@rhea.inf  Some Characters << Hello fellow Travell
 474  5689 22-Jun-1993 VANYA@utkvx.utk  Drives/No Nukes << Okay, some of this s
 474  5690 22-Jun-1993 Anthony Neal     Scout /Courier Erratata << Hello all:
 474  5691 22-Jun-1993 FELLOWS STEVEN   Looking for Aslan/Solomani Book << Hell
 474  5692 22-Jun-1993 Adrian Hurt      Re: lo-tech spaceflight << PAVEWAY <BSP
 474  5693 23-Jun-1993 Kerry Harrison   Grenades for TNE <<      Clay Bush on G
 474  5694 23-Jun-1993 Kerry Harrison   More TNE Errat from Geo <<      Geo Gel
 474  5695 23-Jun-1993 Kerry Harrison   MT - TNE Vehicle Conversions <<      Ge
 474  5696 23-Jun-1993 Kerry Harrison   Corrections/Additions to MT - TNE Vehci
 474  5697 24-Jun-1993 Bertil Jonell    TTNE penetrations (was:Grenades for TNE

------------------------------

Bundle: 474
Archive-Message-Number: 5688
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1993 11:44:27 EDT
From: kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de
Subject: Some Characters

Hello fellow Traveller,

the following are three characters, I've build in some idle hours
on the weekend. Ahhh...and BTW I like Battletech very much,
perhaps that's why I had the idea of filling small circles when I 
first saw the combat rules :-).



Montabaur hault Mondar

Montabaur hault Mondar is born on Efate in the Regency. He decided 
to become a Master Psionic but after a test in the local Psionic
Institute, he was rejected. He then decided to join the Navy as
officer, so he starts his career at the Flight Academy.

Finishing the Flight Academy as a skilled pilot he joined the
officer corps of the Efate Navy, to be promoted at once. For
eight years was the Regency Navy his home, one more promotion
follow - from behind the scene supported by his father. When 
Montabaur ("Monty") realizes his fathers influence, he decided to 
become a Wealthy Traveller, to spend some of his money. Though 
wishing to spend money, he instead gains lots of it, and after 8 
years as Traveller he decided to join the diplomatic corps of the 
Regency.

Due to his descent and his interest for the Zhodani Society in 
his youth, he is promoted to Consul very fast. Eight years of 
service as Diplomat does finally show him a way to adventure he 
is searching from now on.

STR: 3         Homeplanet:    Efate     Spinward Marches 1705
AGL: 5                                  A 646A30-E  Hi In
CON: 5
INT: 7         Terms: 7
EDU: B               1.  Flight Academy
CHR: 8              2-3. Navy
                    4-5. Wealthy Traveller
SOC: C              6-7. Diplomat

PSI: 0         Contacts: 4 Military, 2 Buisness, 6 Government

PSI Strength 3 at the first term. Tested at psionic institute, 
but charater was rejected as Regency Psion.

Skills: ( (B) = Background Skill)
     Slug Rifle           5/ 8          Admin/Legal          4/15
     Acrobatics (B)       4/ 9          Communication        3/14
     Pilot(Interf.,Grav)  3/ 8          Computer             0/11
     Environm. Suit       1/ 6          Robotics             5/16
     Riding (B)           3/ 8          Act/Bluff            2/10
     Swimming             1/ 6          Leadership           3/11
     Fleet Tactics        4/11          Liason               2/10
     Research (B)         6/13          Persuasion           3/11
     Willpower            4/11          Recruiting           3/11
     Astrogration         5/12

Language:
     Zhodani              3             Linguistics          2

Initiative:    4

Rank:     Navy      O3   Lieutnant
          Diplomat  R3   Consul

Ship's DM: +22 for Scout or Yacht

Starting Money:     1,415,000 Credits




Klara Taft  aka  "Magic Voice" Laureen

Klara Taft was born as a child of "honorable" parents on Schall
in the Old Expanses. She was fond of music from her earliest 
youth, and when she get in contact with a composer and a band, 
she decided to become Entertainer. During her time as Entertainer
she improves  some technical skills, exspecially computing, 
skills she loves to use.

The arrival of a Hiver Ship result in a big cut. After a short 
phase to find a decision, she joined the Hiver Technical Academy
to improve her technical knowledge. For four years she improved 
her skills and show special affinity for computing and 
communication operating.

Leaving the academy she decided to first earn some money. Four 
years as computer programmer were dull for her, but after that 
she decided to go adventuring.

STR: 5         Homeplanet:    Schall    Old Expanses 0638
AGL: 5                                  E 47A655-7  Ni Wa
CON: 4
INT: 6         Terms: 5
EDU: D              1-3. Entertainer
CHR: A               4.  Hiver Technical Academy
                     5.  Computer Operator/Programmer
SOC: 9

PSI: -         Contacts: Government, 2 Entertainment, Computer,
                         Hiver Spec(Sensors 8), Law Enforcement

Skills: ( (B) = Background Skill)
     Slug Pistol          2/ 7          Electronics          2/15
     Acrobatics (B)       3/ 8          Map                  2/15
     Music(Str.Inst.)(B)  2/ 7          Marketing            2/15
     Wheeled Vehicle      3/ 8          Meteorology          1/14
     Swimming (B)         2/ 6          History              1/14
     Gambling             1/ 7          Starship Architect   2/15
     Sensors              3/ 9          Act/Bluff            1/11
     Willpower            3/ 9          Liason               3/13
     Communication        3/16          Persuasion           2/12
     Computer(B)          8/21          Song(B)              5/15

Language:
     Hiver                4             Linguistics          2
     Vilani               2

Initiative:    2

Rank:     None

Ship's DM: +3 for Yacht

Starting Money:     15,000 Credits




Prof.Dr.XenBio Roland Meier

Roland Meier was one of these persons, who are sure to become a 
scientist in his later life. In his youth he likes to climb the 
few small mountains Aubaine has, and to find places where he 
could be alone, and sometimes he manipulates the computer system 
just to get an edge over his friends.

He works through a University career, he only interupts, to get 
some training in Martial Arts and an exciting live. After 
absolving four years as Martial Artist, he decided to go back to 
his University career. After four years as Professor he decided 
to follow his occupation, Xeno Biology, into space.


STR: 7         Homeplanet:    Aubaine   Old Expanses 0738
AGL: 8                                  A 78A884-C  Wa Ri Cp
CON: 6
INT: 8         Terms: 6
EDU: D               1.  Undergraduate University
CHR: 7               2.  Graduated University
                    3-4. Scientist
SOC: 8               5.  Martial Artist
                     6.  Professor
PSI: -
               Contacts: 3 Government, 2 Scientist, Journalist,
                         Business, Academic

Skills: ( (B) = Background Skill)
     Armed Martial Arts:                Research             2/10
       Large Blade        5/ 8          Admin/Legal          3/16
     Acrobatics           3/11          Computer (B)         7/20
     Energy Rifle         2/10          Genetics             3/16
     Pilot(Interf./Grav.) 2/10          Marketing            2/15
     Stealth (B)          4/12          Instructtion         2/ 9
     Climbing (B)         5/11          Leadership           3/10
     Environment Suit     1/ 7          Liason               1/ 8
     Zero-G-Environment   1/ 7          Persuasion           1/ 8
     Observation (B)      5/13          Xeno-Biology        10/23

Language:
     Hiver               5             Linguistics          2

Initiative:    3

Rank:     Science   O3   Assistant Professor

Ship's DM: +11 for Lab Ship

Starting Money:     32,000 Credits


That's it for the moment,

bye,

Juergen
- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Juergen Kirsch
Institut fuer Informatik, Universitaet Bonn
Germany
kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de

------------------------------

Bundle: 474
Archive-Message-Number: 5689
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1993 09:00:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: VANYA@utkvx.utk.edu
Subject: Drives/No Nukes

Okay, some of this stuff may be a few days old, but here goes...

	Still on the subject of drives:

Anthony Neal <anthonyn@odie.cs.mun.ca> questions:
>	Now, I have Star Systems rolled that my group will be travelling through
>which are all Tech Level 7-8 and they contain off-world colonies. I needed a
>State of the art ( :) ) form of engine to create a few neat things, including
>a design close to that of the Eagle Transport that appeared in the old BBC
>series "Space 1999" (I loved that series!).

>	Now, the info for the MPD is as such:

>TL   Type        TT   Mass   Vol   Fuel    F.Type     PwRqd  PwOP   MCr
>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 8   MPD         0.2   10     10   0.005   Hydrogen   0.5    None   0.75
>				 ---   --
>				  ^    ^                        
>				  |    |
>				  \    /
>				   \  /
>					Huh??
>
>	Now, If these figures are correct, how does the thing manage to get off the
>ground? Further, taking a quote from page 82...
>
>	"With this technology, true insystem commerce
>	 can begin to flourish freely and easily"
>
>	Please tell me these figures are typo'd in some way.
	Nope, Anthony, these numbers are not typos at all.  They represent the
very low acceleration of a MPD drive.  They cannot get off the ground.  They
are used for insystem and orbital maneuvering.
	I dont know if _Hard Times_ has this,( my data is from the "One Small
Step" article by CE Gannon in Challenge #45) but under Locomotion it is stated:
"Note that many low tech spacecraft...will have G ratings significantly less
than 1.  They cannot even get off the ground when planetside.  This is _not_ an
error."
	This means that a MPD powered ship must have a secondary drive to lift
from a planet, or it never lands.  Give it a HiPerf rocket to lift off with and
an MPD for space cruising.  For an Eagle, I would have to assume either
a fusion rocket (Oh No, not the evil fusion rocket) or a HiPerf Rocket,
probable the latter.  (Yes, it was a fun show.)

And, in order to fan the fusion flames higher and higher:

>Since relatively few people seem interested in addressing the question I
>brought up (why worry about nukes when you have a fusion drive?), I
>suspect that I can make the best use of my time by signing off now...
>
>				---Steve Higginbotham
	Indeed.  Well then, here is something to add to the discussion.
	In order to justify the attitude that fusion drives are good and nukes
are bad (and we musy assume that this is the case, or else bye-bye Traveller
universe), the reasoning must take into account many things, paramount being
public opinion and economics.
	On the Public Opionion side: people think nukes are bad.  Simple as
that.  Nukes are seen as weapons, and weapons only.  Not just waepons, but
weapons of such mass destruction that the avarage Imperial subject would react
to them much as an average citizen would today: Nukes are weapons; weapons
kill; nukes kill lots at once; killing is wrong; therefore, nukes are bad.  Not
a bad piece of logic, and quite understandable.  This attitude seems enough for
a government who says that it represents the people to stricly control nukes
(as well as PGMP, FGMP, machine guns, grenades, battledress, etc).
	Of course this belief also taints the usefulness that can result from
the same technology: nuclear power generators, nuclear pulse drives for Orion
(best use I've ever heard for nukes), etc.  Many people apply the
reasoning above (nukes are bad...) to oppose anything related to the weaponry. 
Hopefully, this attitude is rare, as long as the spinoff technology is safe.
	But, what about economics?  Lets reconstruct our argument to another
potential killer: the automobile.  Killing is bad; automobiles kill lots of
people every year in accidents; therefore, automobiles are bad.  Most people
will readilly agree with the first argument, but not with this one.  Why?
	Automobiles play an integral part of our society.  Without them, our
transportational, manufactural, society would not function.  Because of the
benifits that come with the automobile, society has decided that the deaths
that result from its use is acceptible.  The deaths that result from the use of
a nuke generally outweights the benifits gained from using it.
	Change automobiles to starships and the argument is still valid.
	We try to minimalize the deaths from automobiles: safety restraints,
traffic lights, good roads, licencing of drivers, laws against abuses and cops
to enforce those laws.  These steps must all be taken in the Imperium, also. 
Ships fusion reactors must be almost impervious to accidental meltdown and
very resistand to deliberate meltdown, ships drives (and their operators ) must 
be fully licenced, ships must travel defined 'travel lanes' and obey traffic
laws, and ships myst be operated by the gov't to enforce these laws.  Any
low-tech fusion rockets must only travel along sertial flightpaths, have
alternate planetary drives (a-grav, whatever), etc.
	Mind you, noone will probably be able to stop a determined person from  
crashing his ship into a planet at high-c speeds, just as its almost impossible
to stop a van full of explosives from running a roadblock and exploding in a
government building.  However, this does not mean that vans will be made
illegal.  Fusion drives are too useful to toss out the window just because you
could toast a city with them.  Fusion reactors (and starship fission reactors)
are entirely to important to the Imperium for them to limit their use,
construction, or distribution in an unreasonable means.
	What must be done is a series of safeguards must be in place it help
prevent this from happening.
	What safeguards?  Possible similar to whats in place to stop people
from crashing their vans into gov't buildingd, or piloting their plane filled
with fuel and explosives into the White House, or some such silly thing.

       -Vanya

Oh,yeah...
	Massive Congrats to the happy people who have brought new life onto
this TL8 world.  May they be the generation that leads us to the stars.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Remember the Five Top Reasons to Hate Starship Travel:
        5) Solomani military music keeping you awake all night.
	4) Having a K'kree sit at your dinner table.
	3) Aslani furballs cloging up the drains.
	2) Allowing a Vargr on board who's not paper-trained.  After all, they
slobber all over the place anyway, and scratch up the furniture, and bring in
fleas, and piddle in the corners and,...Oh, forget it.
	*And the NUMBER ONE HATE---*
	1)Anything to do with the Hivers!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Bundle: 474
Archive-Message-Number: 5690
Date: 	Tue, 22 Jun 1993 11:18:50 -0230
From: Anthony Neal <anthonyn@ODIE.CS.MUN.CA>
Subject: Scout ^H/Courier Errata^Hta

Hello all:

	I have discovered that my figures on the Scout/Courier in last post were
flawed in the Top and Cruise speed figures. The proper figures are:

	Top=1908 kph, Cruise=1431 kph

	Sorry about that. Designing late in the night. Bound to make one or two
mistakes! :)

	Anthony

------------------------------

Bundle: 474
Archive-Message-Number: 5691
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1993 12:32:05 -0600
From: sfellows@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU (FELLOWS STEVEN B)
Subject: Looking for Aslan/Solomani Book


Hello!

A friend of mine is looking for a  copy of Aslan and Solomani, Aliens
Vol.2 from Digest Group Publications.  He really wants a copy, so if
you have a copy that you would be interested in selling to me, please
send me email, telling me its condition and how much you would 
want (or maybe you are looking to trade ).

Thanks,

Steven B. Fellows
sfellows@slate.mines.colorado.edu

------------------------------

Bundle: 474
Archive-Message-Number: 5692
From: adrian@cee.hw.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt)
Subject: Re: lo-tech spaceflight
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 20:25:07 WET DST

PAVEWAY <BSP054@BANGOR.AC.UK> writes:
> 
> If one had between 1 and 4 personnel trained in various aspects of Tech 6-8
> technology stranded on a tech 0-1 world with some local prim's to do heavy
> lifting etc.  would they be able to get out to the worlds satellite by
> building a spaceship?  (assume they have Anagathics)
> 
>  The solution I wondered about was if the built an aircraft with a rocket
> engine like a larger version of the Me 163 Komet to put stuff in orbit.
> (assume they have an equatorial launch site and a nice ramp) 
>  Could a tech 5-7 airframe be built so it could fly down from orbit under its
> own power without heatshielding?

Will someone please explain, to me at least, why NASA hasn't been able to do
just this?  Aren't the locals primitive enough to do the heavy lifting? :-)

>   How hard is it to make an Iraqi super gun anyway? (without the aid of Her 
> Majesties Govt.)

Well, the Germans managed it in WW2 (except that it wasn't exactly an *Iraqi*
super gun :-) when they built their V3 weapon.  Basically, it was similar to
the Iraqi version, except that it wasn't built with British assistance.  It
was demolished with British assistance, though, courtesy of 617 Squadron.

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cee
 UUCP: ..!uknet!cee.hw.ac.uk!adrian  |  ARPA:  adrian@cee.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Bundle: 474
Archive-Message-Number: 5693
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 09:20:26 CST
From: Kerry Harrison <harrisok@ccmail.dell.com>
Subject: Grenades for TNE

     Clay Bush on GEnie was kind enough to provide the following stats from 
     Dark Con for hand grenades.  Just convert the $ to Cr and they should 
     be usable as TL7 - 8 hand grenades for TNE.
     
      ANTITANK: The grenade is designed to explode on impact. It contains a 
     shaped charge and is stabilized by fins so that the grenade flies with 
     the shaped charge pointing forward.
      Wt: 1kg, 25kg per case of 25.
      Price: $24 ea, $325/case (-/C).
     
      CHEMICAL: Same as chemical round for large caliber guns. Two types 
     are available: HC smoke and tear gas.
      Wt: 0.5 kg, 16kg per case of 16.
      HC smoke price: $3 ea, $250 per case. (S/C)
      Tear gas price: $18 ea, $500 per case (R/S).
     
      CONCUSSION: The grenade consists of explosive filler in in a 
     cardboard or plastic container. Upon explosion it will will knock 
     people down, but causes
     no lethal fragmentation.
      Wt: 0.5 kg, 20kg per case of 20.
      Price: $8 ea, $120/case (-/V).
     
      FRAGMENTATION: Upon exploding the grenade scatters metal fragments 
     throughout its burst radius.
      Wt: 0.5kg, 30kg per case of 30.
      Price: $10 ea, $150 per case (-/V).
     
      THERMITE: The grenade has little blast or fragmentation, but it burns 
     with intense heat. (See burns.) It also produces significant visible 
     light and light in the ultraviolet portion of the spectrum.
      Wt: 1kg, 20kg per case of 16.
      Price: $18 ea, $250 per case (S/C).
     
      WP (WHITE PHOSPHOROUS): The grenade scatters incendiary fragments 
     throughout its burst radius and burns with intense heat. (See Burns.) 
     It also produces significant visilble and ultraviolet light.
      Wt: 1kg, 20kg per case of 16.
      Price: $12 ea, $170 per case (-/C).
     
         HAND GRENADES
      Type          Damage        Pen
      Antitank      C:3, B:4      18C
      Chemical      C:1, B:12     Nil
      Concussion    C:5           Nil
      Frag          C:3, B:12     Nil
      Thermite      C:1, B4       Nil
      WP            C:1, B:12     Nil


------------------------------

Bundle: 474
Archive-Message-Number: 5694
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 09:20:26 CST
From: Kerry Harrison <harrisok@ccmail.dell.com>
Subject: More TNE Errat from Geo

     Geo Gelinas on GEnie found some more errata:
     
     1. Page 56 - Career Entry Requirements Table:  The Hiver technical 
     academy requires INT or EDU of 7+.  The table shows EDU or CHR of 7+.  
     I have not checked out all the entries on this table.
     
     2. Page 114 - Skills List: Energy Weapons is listed under Strength.  
     Agility (where it is also listed) is the controlling attribute.
     
     3. Page 340 - Communications Equipment:  The TL 9 and TL 10 1 liter
     communicators weigh the same.  The TL 10 is CR 50 less, but has 
     -1/10th- the range of the TL 9 communicator of the same size.  (BTW 
     radios sure have gotten a lot heavier in the New Era - in Striker, a 2 
     Kg TL 9 radio would have a range of over 5000 KM).  Recommend changing 
     the range -or- changing the size and mass.
     
     4. The use of a flechette grenade is a little confusing. Actually what 
     is confusing is the "Close Range Penetration" of "9" for this 
     particular grenade.  Does this mean it is wimpy close up? (I don't 
     think so) Or, does it become a penetrator at short range?  (In which 
     case it is a tremendous anti-APC weapon).  Okay, I just read the rule 
     on flechettes again and believe this should be short range -Damage- 
     which makes a lot more sense.  I just double
     checked with shotguns and found that at close range they have a Damage 
     of 9.
     
     5. Most of the ships in the book do -not- list the total amount of 
     fuel they take.  How are we supposed to know how much to purchase if 
     we don't skim a gas giant?  One way to figure this out in the interum 
     (and I feel that the volumes should be put in an errata sheet for our 
     general information) is to subtract the empty weight from loaded 
     weight. Then subrtract the volume in cubic meters of the cargo (since 
     MT assumed 1 ton per cubic meter I chose to use this figure, therefore 
     the mass of the cargo will equal its volume), and from that subtract 
     the weight of any vehicles.  This will give you the weight in tons of
     the fuel (which, by no coincidence is also its displacement volume in 
     tons, since by definition, a displacement ton is the volume occupied 
     by one metric ton of hydrogen).  If you want cubic meters (also called 
     kiloliters) then multiply the displacement by 14 (which TNE uses 
     instead of the former 13.5 - since one ton on deck plans is now 2 
     meters by 2 meters by 3.5 meters).
     
     While working on a set of deck plans, I worked out a -rough- formula 
     for figuring out how many tons of fuel is G-hour. Simply divide the 
     ship's displacement by 100.  Therefore, a 100 ton vessel would burn 1 
     ton of fuel for 1 G-hour of thrust.  Be advised, I only looked at two 
     examples, but the results were the same.  I checked the first two 
     ships in the book.  If you have MT, you can check others.  Calculate 
     the tonnage of fuel as above.  Then, using MT, find the number of jump 
     units that a ship of that displacement and jump range would require.  
     Multipy that number by 5 tons to find out how much jump fuel the ship 
     requires.  Then subtract jump fuel from total fuel and you get the 
     amount of reaction mass fuel. If you divid this number by (ships
     displacement divided by 100) you should get approximately the total 
     number of G-hours that is listed on the ship's sheet.  If you try it, 
     please post the results -positive or negative-.
     


------------------------------

Bundle: 474
Archive-Message-Number: 5695
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 09:20:26 CST
From: Kerry Harrison <harrisok@ccmail.dell.com>
Subject: MT - TNE Vehicle Conversions

     Geo Gelinas provided the following guidelines for MT - TNE vehicle 
     conversion on GEnie, figured some of y'all might find it usefull.
      
     MAD GEO'S QUICK AND DIRTY GUIDELINES FOR CONVERTING MT VEHICLES TO TNE
     STANDARDS
     
     The release of Technical Architecture is tenetively scheduled for late 
     summer. When that is released, a more accurate vehicle conversion 
     system can be devised.  In the mean time, I offer the following means 
     for Traveller referees to obtain more vehicles for use in their 
     campaigns.
     
     TL - Use straight from the vehicle you are converting.
     
     Size - Multiply the vehicles displacement tonnage by 14 for
          size in kiloliters.  Also list the displacement tons.
          In parenthesis next to displacement tons is the size
          code for the vehicle which can be found in TNE page 324
          center column, I will list it here for convenience.
          Sizes are displacement tons not gross weight.
               SM - sub-micro - less than 1 ton.
               MC - micro - 1 - 9 tons.
               VS - very small - 10 - 99 tons.
               SM - small - 100 - 999 tons.
     
          There are sizes above this, but very few vehicles, other
          than starships, would fall in that catagory.
     
     Weight - List the vehicle's empty and loaded weight in metric
          tons (spelled tonnes to differentiate between them and
          English wight tons.)
     
     Power - List the type and output of the vehicle's powerplant.
          The conversion here might get a little sticky.  If your
          vehicle has a fusion power plant, it will now use almost
          no fuel.  However, most vehicles are using fuel cells.
          You might consider giving your vehicle a MT fuel cell
          instead.  Also, if the vehicle is a grav vehicle, it
          will use reaction mass.  Here is where you can use all
          that fuel that was being used for the fusion power
          plant.
     
     Maint: (Maintenance) - this represents the number of hours a
          week that needs to be spent maintaining this vehicle.
          Striker gives the following list of maintenance points
          requirements (note: some have been adjusted):
     
               Wheeled Vehicle                    5
               Grav Vehicle                       5
               Air Cushion Vehicle                6
               Tracked Vehicle                    8
               Aircraft                          12
     
               Computer                           1
               Fire Direction Center              5
               Nuclear Damper                    12
               Point Defense Fire Control        12
               Indirect Fire Control             10
               Direct Fire Control                6
               ECM, Radio, or Radar Jammer        5 each
               RDF, Radar, Ladar, or Map Box      5 each
               EMS array                         10
               Communicator (any type)            1 each
               Night Vision Device                1
     
               Meson Gun                         10
               Point Defense Weapon              12
               Laser, Plasma Gun, or Fusion Gun   5 each
               Mass Driver or Tac Missile Lchr    3 each
               CPR Gun or MRL                     2 each
               Anti-personnel Weapon              1 each
     
          Add up the above points and divide by 5 dropping
          fractions.  This is an approximate maintenace number.
          Rugged use vehicles would generally require more,
          perhaps as much as twice as much.
     
     Controls: For the computer model, look up the TL of the
          computers installed, this becomes the model number.
          Computers used by grav vehicles or aircraft are called
          flight computers.  Computers used by spacecraft are
          called standard computers.  No name is given for
          computers in ground vehicles, perhaps "vehicle computer"
          will serve.  If the computer is fiber optic, add the
          notation "Fb (fiber optic)" in the text.  List the type
          of controls.
     
     Commo: In TNE, the commo ranges are roughly compatible to
         those in MT, but seem to be in decimal multiples of 3.
         It probably has to do with 1/10 of a light second (30,000
         km) being 1 starship combat range band.  Change the "5"
         in commo ranges to "3".  List all communcators.
     
     Sensors: In TNE, the listed sensor range is the Short Range.
          The sensor's extreme range is 8 times that number.
          Ranges seem to be "3" number for the most part.
          Therefore recommend using the following as ranges for
          sensors:
     
               MT Range       Active Sensor       Passive Sensor
               Distant        300 meters          150 meters
               V. Distant       3 kilometers        1.5 kilometers
               Regional        30 kilometers       15   kilometers
               Continental    300 kilometers      150   kilometers
     
               Sensor more powerful than this are generally only
          employed on Starships, which seem to have the following
          sensor ranges.
     
               EMS ACTIVE         EMS PASSIVE     VESSEL TYPE
                  3,000 km  (0)   150,000 km (5)  Civilian
                 30,000 km  (1)   180,000 km (6)  Small Military
                300,000 km (10)   240,000 km (8)  Military/Survey
     
          For Active EMS, these probably represent Planetary, Far
          Orbit, and Extreme Orbit (a new range for Active
          Sensors).  For Passive EMS, these probably represent
          Extreme Orbit, Interplanetary, and Interstellar.
     
          Select an sensor strength appropriate to your vehicle's
          purpose.
     
          For Densitometers list type of penetration (HI or LO)
          and penetration depth.
     
          For Neutrino sensors list the TL.
     
          Other sensors should be listed, by name, TL if
          applicable (ie multiple levels available), and range if
          one is available for conversion.
     
          Also list any Avionics by TL if applicable.
     
     Life Support: Basic Environment - Heat, Lights
                   Basic Life Support - Sealed Environment
                   Extended Life Support - Extended Life Support
                   Air/Lock - Note if Vehicle has one or more
     
                    TNE lists Pressurized which roughly equates to
                    the old Striker Overpressure.  Since MT did
                    not have Overpressure, this might apply to
                    Basic Life Support rather than sealed
                    Environment.  It's your call.
     
     Load: List the vehicles load in tonnes.  This is cargo only -
          it does not incluce fuel weight.  For the weight of
          cargo, assume 1 metric ton per kiloliter.
     
     Crew: List the number of crew members.  If the crew involves
          more than a driver, list the crew positions in
          parenthesis.
     
     Passengers: List the number of passengers the vehicle was
          designed to carry.
     
     Fire Control: These seem to range from +1 to +4.  If you have
          a high tech vehicle, it will probably be +4.  TL's less
          than 8, and "export" models seem to have lower FC's.
          Use your judgement.
     
     Stabilization: Basic, Good, or Advanced.  TL's 5 or 6 can
          have Basic, 7 can have Good, 8+ can have Advanced.  Grav
          Vehicles automatically have Advanced.
     
     Armament: List types, numbers, and mounts of each weapon the
          vehicle has.
     
     Ammo: List the type and number of rounds available for all
          weapons on the vehicle.
     
     Travel Move: Multiply the vehicle's max speed by 4 for the
          number to the left of the slash, its cross country speed
          by 4 for the number to the right of the slash.
     
     Combat Move: Divide the above numbers by 8.8 for combat
          movement.  Adjust to reasonable looking numbers.  If
          the vehicle is a grav vehicle or aircraft, divide this
          number by 10 and round to the nearest whole number to
          give the number of 10 meter squares per combat turn.
     
     Fuel Capacity: List the vehicle's fuel capacity in -liters-.
          Multiply -kiloliters- by 1000 to convert to liters.
     
     Fuel Consumption:  List the consumption per hour of operation
          in liters of fuel.  Also list the vehicle's endurance in
          hours.
     
          Here you will have to be a little subjective.  Fusion
          power plants use very little fuel, consequently their
          consumption does not need to be listed.  For other
          vehicles, use the consumption rate as derived from MT.
          For reaction mass, use the following:
     
          For vehicles which are unstreamlined, divide the
          vehicle's loaded weight by 4 to determine mass/hour
          required.  If the vehicle is streamlined divide the
          vehicle's loaded weight by 8 to determine mass/hour
          required.  If the vehicle has an airframe, divide the
          vehicle's loaded weight by 16 to determine mass/hour
          required.
     
          <Note: the above figures are extrapolated from the only
          two examples of fusion powered flying vehicles in TNE.
          I did not take into account actual speed.  I postulate
          that contra-gravity provides the lift and fusion rockets
          provide the thrust.  If you feel you have a more
          workable system to determine reaction mass, by all means
          use it, and post it for the benefits of othes.>
     
     COMBAT STATISTICS:
     
          Config: At present, TNE only includes three types of
               configurations - Standard, which have no notation;
               Small Turret - abbreviated ST, and Turreted.  The
               speeder, which is the closest TNE offers to an
               aircraft is stanard configuration.  If you have a
               aircraft designed using COACC, and have T2K2
               available, you may wish to treat it as an aircraft
               according to that system.
          Susp: Refer to the first page of the TNE vehicles for
               the abbreviations of vehicle suspension types.
     
               Type      Damage Value Range
               Wheels    (1) <road> - (6) <rugged cross country>
               Track     2 <light tracks> - 6 <MBT's>
               ACV       (4) - (8) although exceptionally large
                         ACV suspensions can take proportionately
                         more damage.
               Grav      Does not list a separate damage listing
               Legs      Not listed in TNE, recommend 1/4 to 1/3
                         of thickest armor value up to a maximum
                         value of 12.
     
          Armor: Since TNE does -not- use uniform value armor <and
               is therefore more realistic> you will have to do
               some calculation here.
     
               Step A. Find the thickness of your vehicle's armor
                       by looking up the Armor value on page 63 of
                       MT.  The associated modifier is the
                       thickness of armor in hard steel in
                       centimeters.
     
               Step B. Determine the actual thickness in the
                       material which composes your vehicle's
                       armor.  Divide the value derived in step A
                       above by the following:
     
                              Light Composites     2
                              Composite Laminates  3
                              Crystaliron          4
                              Superdense           7
                              Bonded Superdense   14
                              Coherent Superdense 20
     
               Step C. Determine the TNE armor value of the
                       vehicle's armor.  Divide the thickness of
                       armor determined in Step B, by the value
                       listed on the Armor Equivalancy Table on
                       Page 298 of TNE.  This will yield the armor
                       value of the toughest part of the vehicle,
                       usually the vehicle's chassis front and
                       turret front.
     
               Step D. Allocate the armor proportionately around
                       the vehicle.  A rule of thumb is to halve
                       the value from Step C. for the sides,
                       quarter it for the rear and deck, and eigth
                       for the belly.  Armor values should be at
                       least 1.  If the vehicle is open topped,
                       put the AV's for front, sides, and rear in
                       brackets [ ] to denote incomplete coverage.
     
                       Of course this type of armor would actually
                       weigh -much- less than a uniform thickness
                       armor.  There are basically 3 approaches
                       you could take.
     
                              1. Ignore the difference completely
     
     
                              2. Find the MT armor weight and
                                 multiply by .33 to get the TNE
                                 weight.  Subtract this value from
                                 The MT weight to determine how
                                 much less the vehicle should
                                 weigh.
     
                              3. Guesstimate the vehicle's
                                 dimensions and then using Striker
                                 determine what the vehicle's
                                 armor would actually weigh with
                                 that configuration.  Then
                                 subtract this value from the MT
                                 armor weight to determine how
                                 much less the vehicle should
                                 weigh.
     
                       I would only recommend the third option to
                       those perfectionist who have access to
                       Striker.
     
                       A reduced vehicle weigh will probably
                       have an affect on its performance.  You may
                       wish to go back and recalculate this.
     
     WEAPONS VALUES:  Some weapons you will be able to extract
          strait from TNE.  Others will not be so easy.  You
          should first try to look through other House Rule
          products to see if there is a similar weapon listed.  If
          so, use that weapons statistics, perhaps modified
          somewhat for a higher TL.  If you cannot find something
          compatible, try the processes listed below.
     
          Penetrators - Heap rounds, Keap rounds, Lasers, Plasma
          and Fusion weapons.  Take the weapon's greatest
          penetration, to to Page 63 of the Ref's manual.  Find
          that number under the Armor column of the Armor Table
          (Step 9).  The corresponding number under the Mod column
          represents the thickness in centimeters of plate steel
          that the weapon can penetrate.  Double this number and
          round to the nearest whole number.  This is the weapons
          penetration at close and short range.  For damage use
          the penetration value.  Halve the penetration for long,
          and halve it again for extreme range.  If the
          penetration at any range falls below 1, then it is Nil
          for that range and all further ranges.
          HE weapons - take the MT penetration and refer to the
          table below.  (Note: this was derived based on relative
          mass of explosive in the warhead. Higher TL HE rounds
          give you more boom for your buck, and subsequently
          higher penetrations, however this is factored into the
          MT design process, so you don't need to adjust for TL.)
     
          MT PEN       TNE C/P     Burst Radius in Meters
               1            1           2
               5            2           5
               7            3           8
               9            4          10
              10            5          12
              12            6          15
              14            7          20
              15            9          22
              16           11          24
              18           12          26
              19           13          28
              20           14          30
              21           15          33
              22           16          35
              23           17          38
              24           18          40
              25           20          41
              26           21          42
              27           23          43
              28           24          44
              30           25          45
              31           30          46
              32           40          50
     
     That should just about cover it.  Remember, this is only a temporary,
     unofficial guideline.  If you have other thoughts about vehicle 
     conversion, please share them.
     


------------------------------

Bundle: 474
Archive-Message-Number: 5696
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 16:17:05 CST
From: Kerry Harrison <harrisok@ccmail.dell.com>
Subject: Corrections/Additions to MT - TNE Vehcile Conversions

     Some corrections and additions Geo posted to his MT to TNE Vehicle 
     conversion guide:
     
     ======================================================================
     After I uploaded that file, I discovered a couple of mistakes I made.  
     Also, I found bigger HE weapons, so I could expand that table.
      
     CORRECTIONS AND ADDITIONS TO MAD GEO'S QUICK AND DIRTY VEHICLE 
     CONVERSION GUIDE
      
     Armor Step D.2. - Find the MT armor weight and -multiply- by .67 to 
     get -difference- in TNE armor weight.  Subtract this value from 
     vehicle loaded and unloaded weights.
      
     Penetrators - After doubling and rounding -subtract 7- (the average of 
     2D6). I do this because 2D6 is -added- to penetration value before 
     determining damage.
      
     More HE round values.
      
     MT Pen    TNE C/P*       Burst Radius in Meter
        33       45                 55
        34       50                 60
        35       52                 65
        36       58                 70
        37       60                 72
        38       63                 75
        39       68                 78
        40       77                 85
        41       79                 87
        42       82                 90
        43       86                 94
        44       92                100
     ===================================================================== 


------------------------------

Bundle: 474
Archive-Message-Number: 5697
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: TTNE penetrations (was:Grenades for TNE)
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1993 20:33:53 +0200 (MET DST)

> From: Kerry Harrison <harrisok@ccmail.dell.com>
> Subject: Grenades for TNE
 
  First of all, thanks for reposting it here, especially Geos conversion
notes (and thanks to him too of course:)

>       Type          Damage        Pen
>       Antitank      C:3, B:4      18C

  I think this outlines one problem I've seen in TTNE: the generally very 
low penetrations of all weapons (except starship weapons).

  Here we have a TL7 hand grenade, and it has much greater penetration than
any of the fusion or plasma rifles. 

  Comparing the tac missiles with their TL7 and 8 counterparts is even worse:
A TL8 I-TOW has much higher penetration (150C) than any of the tac missiles
given on page 357, even much heavier TL13 versions!

  I have a slight suspicion that this is because GDW wanted to avoid the
scenario where a joker with a TL8 ATGM (pen around 130C) shoots at the 
characters trader, and the ship takes 3 critical hits...

  One possible way to resolve this is to say that anti-ship weapons penetrate
over a much larger area (using 3G3 on it gives a minimum beam diameter of
538mm for the 150MJ TL15 laser if it should be capable of operating in
an atmosphere too, and 134 for vacuum only) and say that unless you really
make a hole 100mm+ in diameter, there won't be any critical hits. 
  This would remove this capability from most small HEAP weapons, but retain
it for very large explosive charges etc.

  This does not mean that small AP weapons are incapable vs ships. Against a
thin-hulled trader, even small TL7+ autocannons and auto-grenade launchers
are devastating. Roughly half of the rounds from a TL7 40mm auto-grenade
launcher firing HEAP would penetrate, and those who didn't would still 
cause damage to hardpoints, antennas, airlocks and other openings.

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 22:00:04 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #475: Msgs 5698-5710 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed Jun 30 22:00:03 EDT 1993
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 22:00:04 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #475: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 475  5698 25-Jun-1993 Anthony Neal     More question ss from the rock... << 
 475  5699 25-Jun-1993 kirsch@rhea.inf  Starship Operation Procedure and RE: Mo
 475  5700 25-Jun-1993 kirsch@rhea.inf  Coding Erors in "The Once and Future Em
 475  5701 25-Jun-1993 Bertil Jonell    House Rules 2: The elephant rule <<   O
 475  5702 24-Jun-1993 Chris Bray       Re: TML nightly: Esther Williams << Alt
 475  5703 25-Jun-1993 "Pedro A.C. Tav  2300 list << Some new members have join
 475  5704 25-Jun-1993 James M. Kelleh  T:TNE and thoughts << James Kelleher 1h
 475  5705 26-Jun-1993 John H Bogan     Reply to Aslan and Vargr Info Requests 
 475  5706 28-Jun-1993 Steve Deemer     Lord Kalvan, etc.. << [Came to TML admi
 475  5707 28-Jun-1993 Mike Basinger    software and Star altas << I justed sta
 475  5708 29-Jun-1993 Pauli            Re: software << Mike Basinger wrote:
 475  5709 28-Jun-1993 Edward Swatsche  Piper: Gunpowder God << > Steve Deemer 
 475  5710 29-Jun-1993 Robert S. Dean   Re:  Lord Kalvan, etc.. << stedee@stede

------------------------------

Bundle: 475
Archive-Message-Number: 5698
Date: 	Fri, 25 Jun 1993 05:01:53 -0230
From: Anthony Neal <anthonyn@odie.cs.mun.ca>
Subject: More question s^H^Hs from the rock...

Hello All:

    First, before I start my nattering, I would like to thank Vanya for the
response on MPD's.... As soon as I read your response it hit me like a ton
of bricks as to how silly I was being thinking only of one type of drive on
a ship. Reality is never usually that neat and tidy... Thanks for the 
reply!

    And belated as it is, Congrats to all the creators of sophonts out there.
'Tis a wonderful experience to have little ones I am told, but watch out 
when they find a hand and realize that they can launch projectiles with that
hand! Gerbers all over the wall, T.V., Cat/Dog/Ferret, PC, etc... Have Fun!

    And nowwwww..... The question you have all been waiting for...

    I am doing up a program to randomly generate animal encounter tables
(Because I hate rolling dice) and have a lack of understanding about a section
in the ANIMAL WEIGHT EFFECTS table, following below....


                                  Wound
    Die    Wt    Hits    Wound    Modifier
    ---------------------------------------
	1      1     1       0        -1D-3
    2      3     1       1        -1D-3
    3      6     1D      1        -1
	4      12    1D      2         -
	5      25    1D      3         -
					.
                    .
                    .
    18     36000 5D      3D+3     x2D+0
    19     40000 5D      3D+6     x2D+2
	20     44000 6D      3D+6     x3D+0


    Hokay. Now, I understand that wound is a modifier for the hits for the
animal's weapon type (described in yet another table) but I have no Idea
what "Wound" means. Wound. That's a pretty generic label and I can't find a
reference to it in the manual. If you have ANY idea what the h*ll this means,
please write me and let me know...

	
     On another note, Does the David Boddie of the Vargr and Zhodani word
generator fame reside on this list? If so, could you E-Mail me your new
address? I have a question regarding a modification to your code that
creates a derivative program.


     And wait! Yet One more question! I have been fiddling with the program
"striker" that is available through Sunbane. In the Laser Weapons sections,
How do I figure out the penetration and attenuation of the lasers created?
Any Ideas?

     Anyway, I'll post the table generator when it's completed. Should be done
in about a week.

	Anthony

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anthony Neal                 |"Lets bring up the cargo manifest. 2300 laser 
anthonyn@odie.cs.mun.ca      | pistols, 1600 laser rifles, 1 ATV, 67 suits of
Memorial University Of       | combat armor and...    What the hell are 
Newfoundland                 | 'tribbles'?"
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 475
Archive-Message-Number: 5699
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 11:51:56 EDT
From: kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de
Subject: Starship Operation Procedure and RE: More TNE Errata from Geo

Hello fellow Travellers,

here is one comments on TML messages I read in the last TML nightly V57#8.

1. Kerry Harrison <harrisok@ccmail.dell.com> wrote:
> 5. Most of the ships in the book do -not- list the total amount of
> fuel they take.
 ...stuff deleted

Well the fuel volume is listed under "notes" together with the fuel
purification ability. In some designs the fuel is called "reaction mass".
It is given cubic meters. I checked the G-hours mentioned of the ship
against the mentioned fuel mass, and got 12.5 kliters per G-hour and
100 tons of ship displacement, a slight difference to your calculation.


I had some trouble looking through the Starship Operating Procedures.
In Step 12, "Travel from Orbit" only streamlined ships are allowed to
land on planet surfaces. After checking the Starships, I found out that
the Subsidized Liner and the Yacht are USL but have Contra-Grav-Lifters.

Contra Grav Lifters are used to lift the ship against the gravity of a
world, so why should ships include Contra Grav, when they are not intended
to land on worlds (the illustration of the Yacht shows the ship flying in
an athmosphere). Realising this, I recommend an addition to step 12 of
the Startship Operating Procedure:

The deorbiting of an unstreamlined Starship is done in two steps. First
the ship decelerate as usual for the landing of a streamlined ship. But
after the time noted in the "Traval Time To Orbit Table", the ship has
only decelerated to suborbital speed (about 1000 km/h), and has reached
the edge of the atmosphere. It takes no G-hours of fuel, but at least
an additional hour to reach the surface of the world to land.

This additional rules only holds, if the destination planet has an
atmosphere. If not so, use the standard rules.

The starting sequence of an unstreamlined ship from an atmosphere world,
should include a one hours ascend to the edge of the atmosphere and then
the usual acceleration to orbital speed.

Any comments on this suggestion are strictly encouraged!

Juergen

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Juergen Kirsch
Institut fuer Informatik, Universitaet Bonn
Germany
kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de

------------------------------

Bundle: 475
Archive-Message-Number: 5700
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 12:01:57 EDT
From: kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de
Subject: Coding Erors in "The Once and Future Emperor"

Hello fellow Travellers,

I checked out the adventure "The Once and Future Emperor", and found, that
the code used there has a lot of typos in it.

Bug 1:

In the "Inscription on the Tetrahedron"(p.145) the first line of code should
read "37265719 2959 37265719" because the code for "F" is "37" not "17",
as mentioned on page 152.

The key for the code on page 152 is buggy too:

Bug 2:
Code for "N" is 47 and Codes for "Y" are 59 and 50! There is no "Z" in the
whole message, but 50 and 59 are used for coding "Y".

Bug 3:
In the "Directions to Gherard's Tomb" are some misplaced numbers, and the
problem according "Y" mentioned above. There are at least 6 errors, most
of the time one numeral is wrong. If someone is interested, I can send
the corrected code to him.

Juergen

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Juergen Kirsch
Institut fuer Informatik, Universitaet Bonn
Germany
kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de

------------------------------

Bundle: 475
Archive-Message-Number: 5701
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: House Rules 2: The elephant rule
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 16:14:21 +0200 (MET DST)

  One thing that I noticed when the PC's went up against very big nasties
in DarkCon was that even those big nasties were very vulnerable to high volumes
of low power fire.

  For example, assuming that an Elephant has 80 hits, it would stand up to
exactly 22 9mm hits, or 6 7.62 hits. That mean that the poor trunkist is
down after five or ten seconds when faced with 5 PC's with semi-auto *pistols*.

  So, I have experimented with a rule that limits the damage done by small
weapons against large targets: ie you might be hitting the elephant and it
might die of blood loss in a few hours, but you need a very powerful weapon
or a very high volume of fire to bring it down quick.

  The Elephant rule: (Perhaps it should be renamed the 'Jurassic Park rule':)

  If the damage points aborbed by an being with just one hit location is more
than the damage value (ie # of dice after armour) times N then divide the 
excess by five. -1 is counted as equal to 1 for the purpose of this rule.
  N is dependent on the system, and should be equal to the NPC hit capacity
(aka 20 in T2k2 and 40 in TTNE).


  Example: T2k2: The first 6 bullets that hit the Elephant will inflict 
6 * 3.5 = 21 damage points. 1 * 20 = 20, so everything above 20 should be
divided by 5, so they really inflicted 20.2 damage points. Getting the
elephant to 80 points would take 85 more rounds, and it will be quite pissed 
the whole time.
  So if you want to take down an elephant, use an aimed shot from an elephant
gun, and not bozos with uzis.

- -bertil-
- -- 
"Desert Eagle! Desert Eagle! ... Minimi! Minimi! ... Light 50! Light 50! ... 
 HEAP! HEAP! ... Run away! Run away!" PC's encountering an animated statue 
 in a Dark Con combat that used the Elephant rule.

------------------------------

Bundle: 475
Archive-Message-Number: 5702
From: cs576112@lux.latrobe.edu.au (Chris Bray)
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Esther Williams
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 11:25:33 EST

Although I don't know what happened to the _real_ Esther Williams
it is my unfortunate duty to tell this list that the hologram is now
a trophy onboard a Vampire ship, somewhere outside the Regency.

Now that is the start for an adventure.

 |-|()()|<	: cs576112@lux.latrobe.edu.au
		:	 	
		:	'I'm looking California, but feeling Minnesota'


------------------------------

Bundle: 475
Archive-Message-Number: 5703
Date: 	Fri, 25 Jun 1993 14:40:33 -0400
From: "Pedro A.C. Tavares" <ftavares%ptearn.bitnet@utcc.utoronto.ca>
Subject:      2300 list

Some new members have joined the list.  Follows the updated list.

           John Banagan <jvbanagan@ucdavis.edu>
           John H. Bogan <jbogan@ic.sunysb.edu>
           Steve Camp <hobbes@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com>
           Palmer Davis <ptd2@po.cwru.edu>
           John Gonzalez <gonzalez@athena.mit.edu>
           Steven Gott <sgott@u.washington.edu>
           Daniel P. Hejlik <dph2@nextsun.ins.cwru.edu>
           Lord Krieg <cvadsaav@csupomona.edu>
           Joao Martins <fjmom@ptearn.bitnet>
           Sven Munther <sven.munther@copenhagen.ncr.com>
           Bruce Pihlamae <pihlab@hmcs.gov.au>
           Dudi Rippel <s2961427@techst02.technion.ac.il>
           Olle Sundblad <d90-osu@nada.kth.se>
           Pedro Tavares <ftavares@ptearn.bitnet>

Thanks to the TML administrator for putting a reference to this "list"
in the TML intro.


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Pedro A.C. Tavares

Faculdade de Ciencias - Universidade de Lisboa

Email: ftavares@ptearn.bitnet
       ftavares@ptearn.fc.ul.pt
       pedro@eltn.utwente.nl
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 475
Archive-Message-Number: 5704
Subject: T:TNE and thoughts
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 23:40:34 PDT
From: James M. Kelleher <kelleher@holonet.net>

James Kelleher 1h 1r... :-) Hello again here I am again I'm on TML 
myself Yah. But first I noticed one typo in my post... MY OWN D*** 
NAME! ... ARRRRGH! I hate that; when other folks don't check their 
stuff: but My own name... Oh bummer. It's Jim Kelle(h)er not 
Kelle(r)er! Oh well no use crying over an extra r... and my spell 
checker has it I know it does... James Kundert ( I'd better spell it 
right he is in one of my games!)

I think that he's right on the blasters. The plasma gun is a bit 
extreme, smoking boots ? yuck! Ok so I guess either an overloaded 
pulse laser, or a low powered laser stun gun ( up powered ) would fit 
the bill. I have yet to have anyone ask for one or for a "Captain's 
sidearm" either, since there has not been any personal combat ( 
through a lot of paranoia on the part of the captain, and other crew 
members they have managed to avoid several dangerous situations. { 
DARN! :-)} ).

Rob Dean Writes: The trouble that I have is that the new setting is 
DULL.  Ho hum...another planet full of barbarians.  How clever can I 
be today?  "Yo, Starblade, bring me my laser rifle...those guys have 
blowguns and they look a little more dangerous than the last batch." 
:-( :-P  Was it here that someone mentioned H. Beam Piper's "Gunpowder 
God" recently?  If not, they should have.  For those of you unfamiliar 
with the works of Piper (shame on you! a seminal influence on 
Traveller),  <Lots of plot synopsis left out >   In "GG", the kingdom 
is located on a distant planet and is saved by the intervention of a 
trading company scout team with contra-gravity vehicles and machine 
guns, who massacre the opposition in the course of a couple of days. 
One of these is an exciting adventure story; the other was only 
reprinted to round out an author's Complete Works collection.  What is 
the difference? In Kalvan, the hero is challenged by the situation and 
has to struggle for success.  In "GG", the heroes smash everything in 
sight without working up a sweat. Our games should resemble the former 
more than the latter.  The advantage of the Old Imperium was that 
there were many planets providing _different_ levels of challenge, 
allowing the referee to provide interesting situations without 
straining our sense of disbelief.  How is a ref supposed to keep a 
game challenging when nearly every obstacle in the path of the 
characters can be removed by blowing everything to bits?  It's not 
even like the Imperials will hunt you down and send you to the Prison 
Planet (Adventure 8 (-:) if you do something too antisocial.  Sure, 
you _could_ play the game without falling into the "I've got the 
biggest gun" rut, but the internal checks and balances of the setting 
have been removed.

Ah well--I've always maintained a continuously progressing timeline in 
my own infrequent games, and for _me_, the year is still 1108.  It'll 
take me a while to get to the point where I have to decide about the 
Rebellion. Is civilization collapsing up there, ahead of me?  We'll 
see when we get there.  But if it is, I think the universe is going to 
be a dull sort of place, without the ability to inspire the near-
fanatical devotion that we oldtimers seem to have for the game.

Rob Dean Weeeelllll I'd have to differ with you here I think that it 
would not be all that hard to come up with new and interesting 
variations on a  theme... " Hey Vikekiller they have to run out of 
ammo sometime..." guess who gets the staring role in the stewpot 
tonight? in addition there is the noticeable fact that the high tech 
stuff is at least 80 years old and so can be unreliable at best. 
Maintenance? spare parts? ha! you gots' ta find em! there is also the 
"Longbow" factor as well as cultural factors that will keep the 
characters in line. Well ok somewhat... A good number of challenges 
could be invented, here are a couple... A highly psionic and 
xenophobic cult secretly rules the planet unless you are very good or 
lucky you won't even know of their existance but gosh... things just 
keep going wrong. Or... You run into somebodies' psycho - historical 
experiment and mess it up??? and boy are they p***ed. note that 
neither one used the old ... fissle snap pop ... I guess it is broken 
you will just have to do without it. (not bad for off the cuff.)

Jim Kelleher writes:

> I think I'll bite the bullet, (as it were ), and go off, ( yes I 
>know  I'm off ;-) ), and take off on a tangent. OK Guys I'm gonna 
>make you  work for this one, and, I hope, a lot of band width. Just 
>what do you  think high tech level Forensic science will be like  ( 
>high tech level  = 13 - 15  ;-) ). How will criminal investigation 
>work? I have only  seen this addresed in traveller as " you are on a 
>ship in jump and you  have no equipment except your wits ( if any :-
>)) to find who did it." I  am thinking of a murder on ground that 
>some of my players can get  involved in and I don't want the Lab to 
>solve it for  them. I   assume that if there are common devices that 
>there will be   methods around them but I find that I'm outa ideas. 
>thanks for any  ideas at all.  ( Metlay, Scott 2g, Rob Dean you guys 
>all seem to have  opinions on everything. :-) :-) ). waiting with 
>baited breath and  muffled oar.

Well, I don't know if you have ever seen the Classic Traveller 
Adventure "Murder on Arturus Station" But I feel it is a classic. 
You're party is asked by the station manager to help solve the murder 
of someone aboard the station. It is a very well done module. And the 
best thing is that you can change the killer each time that you play 
the adventure, so even someone who has played the Adventure could do 
it again the next time because the solution can be different each 
time. Unfortunately it does not rely on forensic science so there are 
no helps there. It relies on character interaction, which I think is 
the best part of role playing anyway. The GM has to play many parts 
male and female each with their own motives and alibis. If you can 
find it pick it up I think it may help. It has the feel of the Maltese 
Falcon or an Agatha Christy murder mystery. Except in this case all 
the clues are there for the hunting. What it basically boils down to 
is good ole police work. Searching for clues and talking to suspects. 
Of course everyone is a suspect and almost all have means, motive and 
opportunity. > Jim Kelleher Greg Givler

Uh Greg I hate to say it but it looks like " you have nothing but your 
wits ( If any ) to solve it." although I do not have that one it is on 
my list of stuff to get soon, it sounds interesting and could give me 
some ideas. the problem is that this murder is going to occur at the 
kingsbury campus of the university of Regina, on Regina, DNI may get 
involved ( I can't tell you why yet ;-) ) 

Everything else is sort of "OK, roll." I think of a number that they 
need to succeed and say if they do or not. Sort of seat of the pants 
stuff. I just try to be consistent. I have always felt that rules in 
role playing games should be a frame work, not engraved in Granite. 
Greg Givler I agree and I must admit that I do this sometimes. I also 
tend to just randomly roll dice sometimes I am trying to determine 
something sometimes I'm just making my players paranoid. there is no 
system that is graven in stone I think that I've modified every game 
system I have used. If you do not LIKE some aspect of a system you can 
either change it or use something else you like more.

 From: Anthony Neal <anthonyn@odie.cs.mun.ca> Subject: Forensics at TL 
13 - 15...

Greetings Humanoids:

	I see someone looking for advice that I myself had a pondering 
about and recently made a ruling. This might be helpful... Or not. 
Catie, could you see that Jim Kelleher receives this post... Thanx!!

( I have received it but due to a misspelling it is Kelleher 1h 1r)

	Well Jim, I have taken to stealing from other games and 
supplements and trying to make a conversion to MegaTrav that I feel is 
resonable. Here's one example... 	So have I, Gurps, is just one of 
them sometimes translation can be a problem, but it's a small price, 
as some of my players have even more Trav stuff than I do; Surprise! 
It is not the scenario you thought it was. Or sometimes I'll just 
modify one of the old Trav things...

FORENSICS KIT

This is a portable forensics lab, with a dedicated computer system 
capable of detection and chemical analysis of evidence. As well as 
ballistics analysis and finger and voice printing, the lab is capable 
of identifying and classifying hair,flesh scrapings and blood samples, 
and using them to determine the owner's genetic pattern. It is usually 
linked to a database containing detailed records on suspects to aid 
identification. Also contained is a still camera with reader. It comes 
in it's own carrying case.

	TL   Volume       Weight            Price 	--------------------
- ------------------------ 	12   30.0 litres  30.0 Kilograms    Cr 
9,000



Aside: 	Well, I dunno. I put together this little thing to make my 
life a little 	more relaxing. Actually, it's pretty well stolen from 
the Criminology Kit in GURPS Cyberpunk, page 54. (Lawsuit???) but very 
bare bones translated. 	I figure the "Dedicated Computer" is some 
kinda expert system. Could  linked to a central database by comlink or 
cellular modem (whatever). 	For my purposes, the computer is a 
model/1bis. That's what the Hand	Computer is supposed to be. Sure, 
there's a lotta room in the case for more 	hardware, but that's all 
they really need. The sensors are stolen from the Electronic Locks 
section. Sure, they're a little more accurate, but it's a decent start 
for a homegrown piece of work. I have brought the Cyberpunk and 
Ultratech Battery types into Traveller to make my  life easier, seeing 
Trav won't make my life easy! Never could find definitive information 
about power pack size for laser weapons and other things. 	The above 
contraption runs off a C cell for three months. Powerful little cells. 
You could up the ante and put in more gizmos, but this should do.

I think that a chemical sniffer and a neural sensor might help I'll 
consult with Catie's former police commissioner character ;->.I have 
noticed that T:TNE has what looks like a good set of battery rules. -- 
jim --

	For the still camera above, I use a Digital Camera, which will 
get 3000 still photos or 1 hour of video (Huh? ah well. probably a 
weak comparison. 	but it's my rule. Don't like it? Change it!) per 
1.5 Gigabyte disk.

Only 1.5 Gigabyte Tsk Tsk we have 1.2's in 3.5 in. format now! I think 
you should get more than an hour but for it's work you probably won't 
need it. -- jim --

Anyhow, that's the stuff. Hope it helps. Yes a lot, but I still have  
to figure a way around the " Well we have matched the DNA samples at 
the scene of the crime and here is the criminal." I guess that is my 
problem not yours but how could they get away with it ???

Now back to your regularly scheduled diversion...

Scott 2G Kellogg has some good things to say about Survival Margin ( S 
& M ? ) I do think I like the whole thing. I think what he is doing in 
the IKAR sector ( Foreven sector to us imps ;-) ) is great. His 
universe and mine are probably diverged, but that's Ok, to each his 
own I think my group is interested in playing through the 1130's and 
beyond into the regency and the consulate getting closer,this seems to 
be an exciting period. Eventually we may see the new era, of course it 
will be the children of the characters ( if they survive ;-) bwaha ha 
ha ) or their grand children. if... this is not to say that we will 
not use the new rules if they seem to be an improvement. ( what I've 
seen so far looks like it! ). After all we have not passed 1118 yet 
there are exciting adventures just around the corner so to speak.

 - -bertil- >but it seems that ol' Norris still rules things, even 
though he >should be in his 140's (and his daughter in her 60's at 
least). Uh, bertil uh, I couldn't find where you got your assumption 
from. I would be surprised if ol' Norrie, ( one of my characters calls 
him Norrie to his face ;-) ), was still around after all, the 
anagathics rules are very pointed. You are lucky if you make just 
about 120 years, His daughter could still be around but she would be 
pretty old. How about the Kid from Arrival Vengeance??? 

Assuming that low Pen means better penetration, and high Dam means 
more damage (which assumptions are based on the idea that better 
penetration and more damage mean better chances of harming the target) 
then it is the data which gives the 9mm rifle better penetration and 
more damage than the 12mm rifle which is at fault.  I would personally 
expect the 12mm rifle to have worse penetration (higher Pen) and do 
more damage (higher Dam) than the 9mm rifle.

The smaller bullet and higher powder ( relatively ) charge makes the 
9mm penetrate better but will have a lower damage than a 12mm which 
has a larger area to inflict its damage over. -- jim  kelleher --

 Adrian Hurt

Will there be a way for people who have bought the various items that 
will be in the boxed set to acquire the "special goodies" without 
getting TNE and Technical Architecture again ie: without shelling out 
for the entire boxed set? mark Matson

Yes! Yes! please I have already bought T:TNE and really do not need 
another copy. I'll buy the technical architecure book as soon as it is 
out, I am very eagre for it, especially since the quality of T:TNE was 
so good. -- jim K --

    For my own use, I'm thinking of staying with my current usage of 
thruster-plates for common use, and fusion rockets where high delta-
v/t is needed.  The thought of the common-folk running about riding 
oversized fusion guns is frightening. :)

               Edjs                                   ------                    
Edward_Swatschek@mindlink.bc.ca  I am considering this as there has 
been a lot of comment about the usefulness of fusion rockets as 
weapons. -- jim --

 steve@sunquest.com (SPG6)   > P.S. I wonder what the Imperial 
equivalent of coffee would be.  (A >toned-down version of combat-drug 
as a beverage additive would really >get your heart a pumpin'...)

> I'm sure that no matter where humans from Earth go, the coffee bean 
> can't be far behind ... > > wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu

And in fact in the Azhanti High Lightning adventures there was one 
about a delivery of a rare Solomani vintage to the Emperor. It was 
something called -- Jmaica Blue Mountain -- if my memory serves me 
well, ( no that's Dillon :-) ). Blue mountain for you folks out there 
who do not know; Is one of the best coffees any where!!! In my 
campaign some people drink coffee and like it, but it is very 
expensive, others just have Neo-caff. ( some even like that STUFF 
better than coffee! ) -- jim --

Coffee  On coffee: It's notoriously fickle regarding where it will 
grow, and how it tastes depends a great deal on the conditions that it 
was grown in.  I can see the coffee houses of the (Post)Imperium now, 
3100 flavors at your beck-and-call (for a price, of course...)  Or you 
can drink the local swill for 10Cr. steve@sunquest.com (SPG6) Humm 
Yeah I guess Cr.10 would be about right :-> unless you WANT Neo-caff 
??? Humm I wonder if Bach's coffee cantata is still popular? -- jim --

  At least in the case of the areas surrounding the RC, we might 
assume that any teddy mark in the world lists is a statement by the 
RCES giving any official or quasi-official party an 'open season' on 
the government and that the mark in the world list reflects a current 
or future RCES classification, just like the Amber and Red zones were 
classifications actually issued by TAS reflecting their judgement and 
info about interdictions, instead of 'just' a game-mechanic.

   It is like a 'most favored nation' status in reverse. 'Government 
Non Grata', 'Hunting Licence'.

I mean, are these guys GREAT examples of HEROES, and GOOD GUYS, or 
what???  				---Steve Higginbotham

I have to agree with Steve Higginbotham on the ARCES I find that makes 
a good role-playing " Well the curch is not so bad... so who do we 
believe and who are we working for anyway??" -- jim --

So stop wasting time babbling about TRIVIA like those det-laser 
missiles.  If you really want to disarm your PCs, start by preventing 
them from getting their hands on a ship of any kind....   Think about 
it....    		---Steve Higginbotham "A reaction drive is a 
weapon, whose efficiency is in direct proportion to its efficiency as 
a drive"  --- The Kzinti Lesson, from Larry Niven.

youch that looks evil I am thinking of staying with the thruster 
plates in order to stop this kind of abuse. -- jim --

 the TNE book.. is there any mention on TAS (Traveller's Aid Society)? 
Just wondering if they are still in existance in the Regency.....

Thanks Heaps...

- - ------------- James Johannesson            Email  
Internet:johann@jester.usask.ca

Why yes I noticed that the good ol' TAS still existed in the Regency 
but not any where else. I think that they will be an interesting group 
to get the Regency players to head out into the wilds to see what is 
there. ;-)

There's also the potential for coasting missiles; the missiles would 
go "dead" for a large part of their flight and hope to avoid detection 
until they go active close enough to (hopefully) get in before 
defenses could defeat them.  If this tactic were extended to ships, I 
imagine space battles would look much like submarine combat...   In 
reference to detecting contra-gravity, I suspect that stealth contra-
gravity technologies would be developed; technologies to hide or 
disguise the detectable emissions.   Steven J. Owens uso01@unidata.com

Ya know I kinda like some of these ideas I did like "Star Cruiser" and 
the submarine like combat. On the stealth designs, I was working on a 
design that was a stealth ship she was going to be a peripheral part 
of the adventure but I thought of an added extra it is an AI (this 
definitely predates the Virus 1120 or thereabouts :-) ).

More T:TNE My first impression of the ship hull armor is that it is 
too weak  I Mean; I mean; I'm just sittin'' here on the group W ... no 
that's Arlo Guthrie. When a grunt Tech level about 5 can use a Bazooka 
( See the Heavy Weapons book ) to punch through the the hull of ANY 
commercial craft Armor = 10, and any other except a Gazelle, or SDB. 
Has a chance on the Gazelle armour = 63. Most of the "Free" Traders I 
know are going to want do something about this Pronto! If the local 
gravel agitators find out that they can poke holes in the ship; it 
won't be long before they try just for grins and giggles. ( Yeah sure 
right !) With Super Dense (tm.) :-) I feel that the armor values too 
low unless I missed something here. ( My materials person will go on 
at great length about the impossibility of " SuperDense (tm.) " at the 
drop of a hat [ sometimes she drops it herself!] Loren, any comments? 
- - I realize that this equalizes the the natives and a ship crew but 
there are other ways... ;-) ( Bwaaah Ha Ha )

Steve Higginbotham : Did  I note a bit of Nyah Nyah I told you so ! In 
that post??? although my science "nerd" is gritting her teeth ( hear 
it ?) She agrees that the Thrusters weren't so bad after all. ( gag 
choke.)

Well here is my chance to start another thread and also get flamed at 
the same time. :-) The other day one of my players and I were having 
coffee at my house and the conversation turned to the Zhodani ( did I 
see some ears perk up out there ? Scott 2G, Metlay? ) well any way 
here is some thoughts.

Imperial P.O.W.s they would quickly either be "re-educated" and fit 
into the Consulate, or send them send them back with a strong PSI 
suggestion that "Shooting people is BAD." the person's colleges and 
friends will think that he has been "Brain Washed" By those evil psi 
using brain sucking ... zho's this marks the end of that person's 
military career the Domain has come to realize that these are no 
longer functional with out a lot of work so they are given what they 
will need ot start an new life and are resettled.      Zhodani are 
horrified at the concept of prisons. They are not typically very 
patient people.      Their culture is slowly stagnating although very 
few would realize this and fewer still would admit it!      The 
Tavrchedl sends out pairs of agents to hunt down "Noble" "Law 
Breakers" ( they have broken the social contract in some way ) who 
move into the Imperium. In order to prevent the bad press of a psi 
using Zhodani doing bad things to the non psi's in the Imperium. This 
also sends a message to all potential such that this is not an option.

Remember: when it comes to the Tavrchedl: no matter where you go;           
There they are!      A noble member of the Tavrchedl is "Judge Dred", 
Judge, Jury, and Executioner. ( Oh Boy here come the flames... ;-) )

     Games: I've seen a few but here is one that seems to be popular ( 
at least in our games...) Chess It is very popular ( the Zho's claim 
to have invented it :->, Really :-> ok you don;t believe me ) by the 
way the use of psi in a game is considered uncool, uh sorry "bad 
form". so her is one for ya all what do they do during the psionic 
games...? what kind of competitions. -- jim --

Here is another one for you all am I missing something or what happens 
when you negate gravity, does your ship leave as the planet turns 
under it? I have noted a bit of acidic posts here lately I think we 
can tone them down as we a falling into the I'm right and you're wrong 
trap, and we do not need this here I'd like to see more constructive 
posts. sorry about the length of this post but I have FINALLY! gotten 
on to the net so I've been saving this up for some time...

Remember... No mater where you go there you are... B. Banzai (  
Ancient Solomani Philosopher, Scientist, Rock Star... )


- -- 
Remember: no matter where you go...
There you are...
B. Banzi

James M. Kelleher
kelleher@holonet.net


------------------------------

Bundle: 475
Archive-Message-Number: 5705
From: John H Bogan <jbogan@libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu>
Subject: Reply to Aslan and Vargr Info Requests
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 93 14:41:55 EDT

Two people were asking for aliens information, but I accidentally
deleted the mailfile with their names.

One was looking fo a copy of Solomani & Aslan. I won't sell mine,
but there is a shop near me which has a copy.  If you can't mail-order
it from anyplace, I could probably pick it up for you for cost+shipping.

Another was looking for some kind of Vargr information. Please email me
with what you need.  I might be able to help, depending on what you're
looking for.

John H Bogan
jbogan@c.sunysb.edu

"She turned me into a newt!"

"We prefer the term 'Bwap', if you have trouble pronouncing out true name."



------------------------------

Bundle: 475
Archive-Message-Number: 5706
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 08:40:41 MDT
From: stedee@stedee.Auto-trol.COM (Steve Deemer)
Subject: Lord Kalvan, etc..

[Came to TML admin address - Resent to TML distribution -- James]

>Was it here that someone mentioned H. Beam Piper's "Gunpowder 
>God" recently?  If not, they should have.  For those of you unfamiliar 
>with the works of Piper (shame on you! a seminal influence on Traveller),
><Lots of plot synopsis left out >   In "GG", the kingdom 
>is located on a distant planet and is saved by the intervention of a 
>trading company scout team with contra-gravity vehicles and machine 
>guns, who massacre the opposition in the course of a couple of days. 
>One of these is an exciting adventure story; the other was only 
>reprinted to round out an author's Complete Works collection.  What is 
>the difference? In Kalvan, the hero is challenged by the situation and 
>has to struggle for success.  In "GG", the heroes smash everything in 
>sight without working up a sweat.

"Gunpowder God" is the original Kalvan story published in _Analog_ magazine
about 1964, when _Analog_ was in it's 8.5X11 inch format.  "Gunpowder God"
was followed by several other Kalvan stories which were eventually edited
together and issued as the novel "Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen".  These stories
concern a man from our time accidentally moved "sideways" into a parallel
earth, where he uses his knowledge of our military history to influence
events in the other world.

I've never read the other story described above, and I thought I had all
of Piper's works.  It sounds something like the "Star Viking" storyline,
but that's not it.  Can anyone identify this story more precisely?

Steve Deemer
stedee@auto-trol.com

------------------------------

Bundle: 475
Archive-Message-Number: 5707
From: Mike Basinger <dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: software and Star altas
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1993 13:41:46 -0500 (EST)

I justed started getting back into Traveller. I'm looking for some
good public domain software (Mac or IBM) that work with the
Traveller:TNE system.

Also, can someone send me the name of the star altas book from any  of
the old editions of Traveller.

Mike
- -- 
D. Michael Basinger: 	Not speaking for Indiana University
			dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu
			dbasinge@arapahoe.ucs.indiana.edu (NeXT Mail)

------------------------------

Bundle: 475
Archive-Message-Number: 5708
Subject: Re: software
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 11:02:25 +1000
From: Pauli <grue@cs.uq.oz.au>

Mike Basinger wrote:

>I justed started getting back into Traveller. I'm looking for some
>good public domain software (Mac or IBM) that work with the
>Traveller:TNE system.

I don't think there is any software specifically for TNE out yet.  There is
somework being done, it just isn't finished yet (after all how long has TNE
been available??)

Bertil is working on a hard times UWP crippler and I've done a dice roller
for TNE on the Mac.  There is some other work being done, but I cannot
remember exactly what it is at the moment.  Check out the computer aided
traveller list if you are into software (Either: richard@agora.rain.com or
dan@engrg.uwo.ca should be able to help you get there).  Non-programmers are
welcome too.


>Also, can someone send me the name of the star altas book from any  of
>the old editions of Traveller.

Atlas of the Imperium?





        						Pauli

Paul Dale                       | grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Department of Computer Science  | +61 7 365 2445
University of Queensland        |
Australia, 4072                 | Did you know that there are 41 two letter
                                |     words containing the letter 'a'?

------------------------------

Bundle: 475
Archive-Message-Number: 5709
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 23:39 PDT
Subject: Piper: Gunpowder God
From: Edward_Swatschek@mindlink.bc.ca (Edward Swatschek)

> Steve Deemer writes:
>
>+ Someone writes:
>+ ... In "GG", the kingdom is located on a distant planet and is saved by
>+ the intervention of a trading company scout team with contra-gravity
>+ vehicles and machine guns, who massacre the opposition in the course of a
>+ couple of days.
>
> I've never read the other story described above, and I thought I had all of
> Piper's works.  It sounds something like the "Star Viking" storyline, but
> that's not it.  Can anyone identify this story more precisely?


   I think this one is in _The Worlds of H. Beam Piper_ - essentially a
collection of his stories that did not fit or did not make it into either his
THFH or Paratime collections.  Considering the state of my book-storage area,
I can't immediately confirm this.

- --
               Edjs                    _
              ------                _ //  CI$  : 76427,662
   Edward_Swatschek@mindlink.bc.ca  \X/   GEnie: E.SWATSCHEK


------------------------------

Bundle: 475
Archive-Message-Number: 5710
Date:     Tue, 29 Jun 93 18:10:24 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@cbda8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  Lord Kalvan, etc..

stedee@stedee.Auto-trol.COM (Steve Deemer) writes:
> 
> I've never read the other story described above, and I thought I had all
> of Piper's works.  It sounds something like the "Star Viking" storyline,
> but that's not it.  Can anyone identify this story more precisely?
> 
> Steve Deemer
> stedee@auto-trol.com

Since I wrote the original article that Steve was answering, I went to my
bookshelf to check on the story.  It seems that I have not remembered the
title correctly: The "Space" version of the "Paratime" story "Gunpowder
God" can be found in the Ace collection _Federation_ (1981) under the
title "When in the Course--".  A preface to the story by John Carr tells
how the story was found among Piper's papers long after his death, with no
explanations attached, although it was possibly submitted to Analog before
being revised into "Gunpowder God".

Rob Dean


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 22:00:04 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #476: Msgs 5711-5711 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed Jun 30 22:00:03 EDT 1993
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 22:00:04 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #476: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 476  5711 30-Jun-1993 Derek Wildstar   T:TNE Errata, part 1 of 3 << The follow

------------------------------

Bundle: 476
Archive-Message-Number: 5711
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 12:48:46 EDT
From: wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: T:TNE Errata, part 1 of 3


The following errata and questions have been sent to GDW; the fixes
listed with each are my best guess, and are *NOT* official.  I will
maintain the errata list, and update it with official answers as they
become available.

  -----8<-----
Traveller: The New Era --- ERRATA SHEET, part 1/2, version 1.00, 6/26/93

Compiled by Guy Garnett (GG).  Contributions from Joe Heck (JH), Chris 
Olsen (CO), Steve Higginbotham (SH), Bertil Jonell (BJ), Grant Sinclair (GS), 
John Driver (JD), Mark Gelinas (MG), Kelly Harrison (KH), and Mark Urbin (MU). 
Helpful suggestions from the Traveller Mailing List.

Each entry identifies severity of the error and provides enough
information to find it on the page.  The severity scale is set out on the
table below.


Severity and Number Occurring 

TYPO	(19)	Typographical or spelling error with no impact on game
		play.

NIT	(46)	Factual or logical error with minimal impact on game play.

MINOR	(37)	Factual or logical error that may cause confusion, but has
		minor impact on game play and should have no impact on
		future products.

MAJOR	(3)	An error which may seriously affect game play, or may have
		serious impact on future products.

SEVERE	(6)	An error which makes a section of the rules unplayable as
		published.


Each entry then describes what is in error, and provides a suggested fix
for the problem.  In some cases, several different fixes are possible; the
preferable one is listed first, with alternates following it.

Some entries have commentary, which explain why the item is believed to be
in error, provide the rationale used to construct the fix, or discuss the
merits of the alternate fixes.

Each entry closes with an attribution, the person who first reported the
error to me (in many cases, multiple people have spotted each error; many
thanks to all of you!).



SEVERE: pp.186, Step 4: World Size
The instruction "Roll 2D6 for World Size." is incorrect.
Fix: Change it to "Roll 2D6-2 for World Size."
								--- CO

SEVERE: pp.186, Step 5: Atmosphere
The instruction "Roll 2D6+Size for Atmosphere." is incorrect.
Fix: Change it to "Roll 2D6-7+Size for Atmosphere."
								--- CO

SEVERE: pp.186, Step 6: Hydrographics
The instruction "Roll 2D6+Size for Hydrographics." is incorrect.
Fix: Change it to "Roll 2D6-7+Size for Hydrographics."
								--- CO

Commentary: As they currently read, the world generation rules are severely
broken and CANNOT generate some worlds (for instance, it's impossible to
generate a vacuum world and atmosphere codes 0-4 are NEVER possible).  As
a matter of fact, you can't generate Earth (a major check I always apply to
world generation systems).  
								--- CO

SEVERE: pp.186, Step 8: Government
The instruction "Throw 2d6+Population." is incorrect.
Fix: Change it to "Throw 2d6-7+Population.".
								--- JH

SEVERE: pp.186, Step 9: Law Level
The instruction "Throw 2D6+Government for Law Level." is incorrect.
Fix: Change it to "Throw 2D6-7+Government for Law Level.".
								--- JH

SEVERE: Step 10: Technology Level
The "Technology Die Modifiers" table is incorrect.  It currently reads:

		Star		Atmos-	Hydro-	Popu-	Govern-
	Level	port	Size	sphere	gra...	lation	ment

	0		+2	+1	-	-	+1
	1		+2	+1	-	+1	-
	2		+1	+1	-	+1	-
	3		+1	+1	-	+1	-
	4		+1	-	-	+1	-
	5		-	-	-	+1	+1
	6		-	-	-	-	-
        7		-	-	-	-	-
        8		-	-	-	-	-
        9		-	-	+1	+2	-
        A	+6	-	+1	+2	+4	-
        B	+4	+1	-
        C	+2	+1	-
        D	-	+1	-
        E	-	+1	-2
        F	+1	-
        X	-4

Fix: It should read:

		Star		Atmos-	Hydro-	Popu-	Govern-
	Level	port	Size	sphere	gra...	lation	ment

	0		+2	+1	-	-	+1
	1		+2	+1	-	+1	-
	2		+1	+1	-	+1	-
	3		+1	+1	-	+1	-
	4		+1	-	-	+1	-
	5		-	-	-	+1	+1
	6		-	-	-	-	-
	7		-	-	-	-	-
	8		-	-	-	-	-
	9		-	-	+1	+2	-
	A	+6	-	+1	+2      +4	-
	B	+4		+1			-
	C	+2		+1			-
	D	-		+1			-2
	E	-		+1			-
	F			+1			-
	X	-4

Commentary: The table in T:TNE seems to have suffered from missing tabs;
Chris' reconstruction inserted the tabs where they should go.  However,
T:TNE has a -2 modifier for Government type E (Religious Oligarchy), where
MegaTraveller and Classic Traveller had a -2 for Government type D
(Religious Autocracy) and no modifier for Religious Oligarchy.  I have
changed the table to agree with Classic Traveller.  
								--- CO, GG

MAJOR: pp.187, Step 12: Trade Classifications table
The "Fl" code should apply only to worlds with atmospheres A-C; types D, E,
and F have regions that are human-habitable, and therefore probably have
liquid water oceans.  In addition, a world should only be barren ("Ba") if
its population multiplier is also zero; conversely, a world must have a
non-zero population multiplier in order to be non-industrial ("Ni").
Fix: Alter the "Fl" line of the table; replace atmosphere code "A+" with
"A-C".  Add a note to the bottom of the table which states "A Barren world
must have a zero population multiplier; a Non-Industrial world must have a
non-zero population multiplier."
								--- GS

MAJOR: pp.190, Step 1: Maximum Sustainable Population
Atmosphere types D, E, and F have regions that are human-habitable, and
therefore the ruling that "human life is not possible and the world is
uninhabited" should not apply to these worlds.
Fix: Replace the sentence with: "If the atmosphere is 0, 1, 2, 3, A, B, or
C, human life is not possible and the world is uninhabited: reduce the UWP
population code and population multiplier each to 0."  Also insert the
following line to the Maximum Sustainable Population table, in the
Atmosphere section: "Factor: Atmos D, E, F  Modification: -3".
								--- GS

MAJOR: pp.191, Step 7: Government (impacts other parts of UWP generation)
The "Government Types in the Wilds" table describes an alternate coding for
government types, to be used in the Wilds.  For example, Government 7 is
normally a Balkanized world, however in the wilds it is to be interpreted
as a Mystic Dictatorship.  There is unfortunately no way to determine which
interpretation is to be used from any information in the UWP.

Fix: Modifications are made in several places to the world generation
procedures so that the government types for the wilds are more completely
integrated into the Traveller UWP system.

On pp.183, "Government" paragraph, add the following to the end of the
paragraph: "Many balkanized worlds have a most common government type, or a
most important territory.  Re-roll the government type throw to generate
this government type (ignore and re-roll any further balkanized results),
and note it with a B:# (where # is the government code) in the world's
trade classifications."

On pp.188, "World Government" table, change the following entries:

Code  General Description

0 --- No Government Structure.  In many cases family, clan, or tribal
      bonds predominate,
D --- Religious Dictatorship.  Government by a religious, mystic, or psionic
      minority which has little regard for the needs of the citizenry.
E --- Religious Autocracy.  Government by a single religious, mystic, or
      psionic leader having absolute power over the citizenry.

On pp.191, paragraph 7, "Government", change the entry to read:

"First determine if the world is balkanized.  Add the world size and
population code and subtract the tech level to determine the balkanization
number.  Roll 2d6; if the number rolled is equal to less than the
balkanization number, the world is balkanized.  In this case, the
government type is 7.  Determine the most common government type using the
procedure below, and note it in the world's trade classifications, using
the B:# convention (where # is the government code).  This most common
government type may be a TED, if conditions are suitable.

"Second, if the world's population code is 5+, determine the presence of
Technologically Elevated Dictators (TED).  Find the total number of tech
levels lost in Step 2 and roll 1d10.  If the roll is less than the number
of tech levels lost, the world's government automatically becomes a TED. 
Place the code Td to indicate this in the world's allegiance code, and roll
2d6 on the TED Government Type table to determine the form of the TED
government.  Find the result of the die roll on the table; the
corresponding code is the world's government type.

"If the roll is equal to or greater than the tech level decline, or if the
world's population code is 4 or less, determine the government type by
rolling 2d6 - 7 + Population code.  Record this number for future reference
when determining the world's law level in Step 8.  Find this result on the
Government Types in the Wilds table; the corresponding code is the world's
government type.

On pp.191, "Government Types in the Wilds" table, replace the current table
with the following:

Die   Code  General Description
Roll

 1- - 0 --- No Government
 2  - 2 --- Participating Democracy
 3  - 4 --- Representative Democracy
 4  - A --- Charismatic Dictatorship
 5  - C --- Charismatic Oligarchy
 6  - Roll 2d6 on the "TED Government Type" table, and note Allegiance = Td
 7  - D --- Religious Dictatorship
 8  - F --- Totalitarian Oligarchy
 9  - E --- Religious Autocracy
10  - 8 --- Civil Service Bureaucracy
11  - 3 --- Self-Perpetuating Oligarchy
12+ - 9 --- Impersonal Bureaucracy

On pp.191, "TED Government Type" table, add the following new table:

Die   Code  General Description
Roll

 2 --- 5 --- Feudal Technocracy
 3 --- 3 --- Self-Perpetuating Oligarchy
 4 --- 6 --- Captive Government
 5 --- B --- Non-Charismatic Leader
 6 --- B --- Non-Charismatic Leader
 7 --- F --- Totalitarian Oligarchy
 8 --- F --- Totalitarian Oligarchy
 9 --- E --- Religious Autocracy
10 --- D --- Religious Dictatorship
11 --- A --- Charismatic Dictatorship
12 --- C --- Charismatic Oligarchy

On pp.191, paragraph 8, "Law Level", change the entry to read:

"If the world is balkanized, the law level represents the most commonly
encountered law level on the world.  Roll 2d6 to determine the most
commonly encountered law level of a balkanized world.  The referee can
determine the law levels of individual nations on a case by case basis,
using the procedure described below for non-TED, non-balkanized worlds.

"If the world government is a TED, then roll 2d6+3 to determine the world's
law level.

"Otherwise, roll 2d6-7 and add the world government die roll (recorded in
Step 7 above) to determine the law level."

Commentary: There is no digit, field, or position in the UWP which
designates a world as being in the wilds.  Therefore it is impossible to
determine (without some knowledge outside of the UWP) the government type
of a world.  In addition to being extremely confusing to the referee and
players, this also plays havoc with the trade and commerce rules. 
Ordinarily, a world with a Charismatic Dictators, Totalitarian Oligarchy,
or Religious Dictator is disqualified from the Rich classification, but in
the Wilds, Charismatic Dictators, Oligarchies, TEDs, and Mystic Dictators
are required to have a Rich world?  Rich worlds make good trading partners,
but I though TEDs were supposed to violently discourage off-world contact.

After discussing the problem on TML, the most reasonable conclusion is that
governments in the wilds are just a different distribution of the same
government types we have seen before.  The primary goal was to create a
single table of government types which could be used no matter where the
world was located.  An examination of the original "Government Types in the
Wilds" table revealed that all but four of the government types were
identical to ones already in use in the "Normal" government types table
(although with different code values or slightly expanded definitions). 

Of the four new codes, "Mystic Dictatorship" and "Mystic Autocracy" were
defined nearly the same way as "Religious Dictatorship" and "Religious
Autocracy", except for two words ("or psionic") in the general description.
Since I, for one, have had psionic religions in my Traveller games for more
than ten years, I didn't see much difference between the two, and folded
them together.  Two down and two to go.

The "Tribal Government" is an interesting idea; kind of a half-step between
no government whatsoever and a more formal government.  With some
hesitation, I folded it into "No Government"; if a new set of government
codes were to be devised, this one in particular should get its own code.

The last code is "Technologically Elevated Dictator (TED)".  The more I
think about this one, the more I feel that this classification isn't
really a government type, but rather a classification decision made by some
other interstellar government or agency.  The case of Plaven (setting for
the Classic Traveller "Divine Intervention" double adventure) is a case in
point.  If Plaven were a few parsecs outside the Reformation Coalition, it
would be considered a TED; inside the Domain of Deneb, it's just another
Religious Dictatorship.

Any of the more oppressive government types could be (or could become) a
TED, provided that they  meet the criteria: use of relic or other advanced
technology to maintain their rule, and a certain amount of unfriendliness
to interstellar visitors (Reformation Coalition in particular).

Thus, the decision that a TED was better represented by a government code
that indicated what form the government actually took, plus a note that it
is considered a TED (or, for those worlds outside the Star Viking sphere of
influence, would be considered a TED, if the RCES knew about the world). 
The TED code is placed in the Allegiance field, because it is unused in the
wilds, and also because a TED by definition will not be a part of an
interstellar state.

The retroactive changes required to implement this change should be minor;
only materials produced with the uncorrected T:TNE rules, and which use the
Wilds government type table will need to be changed.  The following table
summarizes the corrections needed:

Old   New
Code  Code

0 --- 0
1 --- 0
2 --- 2
3 --- 4
4 --- A
5 --- C
6 --- Roll 2d6 on the "TED Government Type" table) Allegiance = Td
7 --- D
8 --- F
9 --- E
A --- 8
B --- 3
C --- 9

A couple of caveats are in order, however.  First of all, UWPs generated
using the uncorrected procedure provides no way of determining if the world
is balkanized.  The table above ignores this; the preferable solution would
be to test for a balkanized world as described in the modified paragraph 7
above.
								--- GG

MINOR: pp.18, Homeworld Die Roll Modifiers table
With a starport DM of +9 for characters in the wilds, it is not possible
with a 2d6 roll to get a starport class D.
Fix: Add a statement that the referee can alter the starport DMs, or
mandate a specific starport value.

Commentary: While the rules as published are probably representative of the
types of starports in the wilds, it is probably not representative of the
types of worlds that the PCs will come from in the Wilds.
								--- MG

MINOR: pp.18, Homeworld Die Roll Modifiers table
The starport DM for characters in the Old Expanses is higher than that for
a pocket empire.
Fix: Reverse the DMs, so that the Old Expanses is +3, and a pocket empire
is +6.
								--- MG

MINOR: pp.18, Homeworld Characteristic Description table
While specific descriptions for UWP code values can be found in the world
building section, no such correlation can be found anywhere for government
type.
Fix: Add the following table:

Government Description Table
Description	Code Values

Low Gov		0 - 3
Moderate Gov	4 - 5
High Gov	6 - 8
Extreme Gov	9+
								--- MG

MINOR: pp.23, Homeworld Modifiers table
Environment Suit is only available as a background skill on worlds with a
vacuum atmosphere, or if the tech level is Pre-Stellar.
Fix: Change the tech level requirement to "Pre-Stellar+".
								--- GG

MINOR: pp.56, Career Entry Requirements table
The Hiver Technical Academy requires INT 7+ or EDU 7+.  The table shows
EDU 7+ or CHR 7+.
Fix: Correct the table to indicate INT 7+ or EDU 7+.
								--- MG

MINOR: pp.107, Character Attributes and Skills
In the second line of the first column, reference is made to attributes in
the range of 1 to 13.  This is incorrect; the attribute maximum is 15.
Fix: The sentence should read: "These numbers range between 1 and 15, with
15 being the best."
								--- GG

MINOR: pp.113, pp.115, pp.116: Astrogation skill
Astrogation is listed as (EDU) in pp.115 and pp.116; however it is listed
as (INT) on pp.113.
Fix: Correct the entry on pp.113 to "(EDU)".

Commentary: Other skills may have this problem, every entry has not been
cross-checked.
								--- BJ

MINOR: pp.124-125, Pilot Skill
The last sentence on pp.124, part of the description of the Fixed Wing
cascade, indicates that x-wing aircraft use the pilot skill appropriate to
their current mode of travel.  However, the Rotary Wing cascade on pp.125
indicates that x-wing aircraft should use the Fixed Wing skill at all
times.
Fix: Convertible fixed/rotary wing aircraft (including tilt-rotor, x-wing,
and other rotary wing vehicles which can lock their blades in flight) use
whichever cascade is appropriate to their current mode of flight.  Delete
the portion of the Rotary Wing description which indicates otherwise; the
last sentence should read "Compound helicopters which still derive lift from
moving rotors use this cascade."
								--- GG

MINOR: pp.185, top of the page.
The text begins mid-sentence; some text is missing.
Fix: Locate and restore the missing text.
								--- GS

MINOR: pp.187, Step 12: Trade Classifications table
Low population worlds were defined in MegaTraveller as those with
populations 3-.  My edition of Classic Traveller does not define this code.
T:TNE specifies a population of 4-, but apparently uses the old criteria in
some starmaps (see Kruyter and Fuetz on pp.88).
Fix: Alter the "Lo" line of the table to specify population "3-".
								--- GG, GS

MINOR: pp.187, Step 14: Population Multiplier
The procedure described is correct for any world with a population digit of
1+.  It is probably wrong for population zero worlds.
Fix: Append to the rules: "If the world population level is 0, roll 1D6; on
a 2+, the world is uninhabited: the population multiplier is 0."
								--- GS, GG

MINOR: pp.188, World Population table
There is no population level to correspond to "Incidental", which is used
on the Homeworld Generation Table.
Fix: Population 0 should be "Incidental", not "Low".
								--- MG

MINOR: pp.192, Step 5: Decimal Classification
The instructions in the table don't mention the special cases: There are no
O0 through O4 stars, and dwarf stars (class D) don't have a decimal
classification.
Fix: Add the following instruction to the step: "3.  There are no O0
through O4 stars; ignore and re-roll these results.  Dwarf stars
(luminosity class D) do not have a decimal classification."
								--- GG

MINOR: pp.192, Step 15: Orbit Zones for Luminosity Class Ib
Stellar classes K5 and M0 have no habitable zone, and classes M5 and M9
have two.
Fix: Class K5 and M0 stars should have a habitable zone in orbit 11. 
Classes M5 and M9 should have an inner zone in orbit 11, and a habitable
zone in orbit 12.
								--- GS

MINOR: pp.194, Step 32: Population
Population for minor worlds can be non-zero even if the mainworld is
uninhabited, or has a pre-spaceflight TL.  This is a problem, since the
trade classifications are based on the "main world".
Fix: Add to the following sentences to the instructions: "If atmosphere is
not 0, 5, 6, or 8, DM -2.  If the main world has already been generated,
reduce the population to one less than that of the main world.  Populations
of less than 0 are reduced to 0."
								--- GS, GG

MINOR: pp.194, Step 34: Satellite Size
The size of a world's satellites are generated by 1D6 - World Size.  Since
this allows size 1 worlds to have as many as several size 2 through 5
"satellites", this is clearly wrong.
Fix: The die roll should be "World Size - 1D6".
								--- GS

MINOR: pp.195, Step 42: Facilities
Both Mining facilities and Military facilities use the same code.
Fix: To eliminate confusion, Mining facilities should use code "Mn".
								--- GS

MINOR: pp.224, Interplanetary Travel.
The second paragraph of this section indicates that the travel formulae are
provided.  They are nowhere to be found.
Fix: Provide the missing formulae.
								--- GG

MINOR: pp.228, Step 2: Ship Type
There are no DMs given below the table, but values on the 1d6 table range
from 0 to 6+.
Fix: The table should also use the DMs from the Encounter Likelihood table.
								--- BJ

MINOR: pp228-229, Starship Encounters
The DMs for ship encounters in the wilds produce an alarming number of
Vampire ships.
Fix: Add a note to the effect that "The referee should not feel obligated
to implement a vampire, but treat the encounter as 'No Encounter' if he or
she chooses."
								-- MG

Commentary: The space travel procedure specifies checking for starship
encounters at least four times during an interstellar trip.  In the wilds,
about a third of these checks will result in a ship.  This works out to
about a 19.75% chance that no ship will be encountered.  To achieve this
rate, that means that there are at least a couple thousand starships
operating in the former Third Imperium, and possibly considerably more.  Of
these, about a sixth will be Vampires, giving us three to four hundred
vampire ships remaining in the former Third Imperium.  This is exclusive of
all ships operating as part of the Regency, Reformation Coalition, or a
pocket empire.
								--- GG

MINOR: pp.236, Step 3: Passengers
No die roll is provided for the number of steerage passengers, however a
die roll modifier is supplied for this (nonexistent) roll.
Fix: Roll the dice as indicated in the "Low" column to determine the number
of steerage passengers.  Credit the ship with Cr2500 per steerage
passenger.
								--- GG

MINOR: pp.236, Step 4: Freight and Cargo
It is not clear if the die roll modifiers apply to the number of lots, the
size of the lots, or both.
Fix: Add the following instruction to the die roll modifiers: "Apply the
following die roll modifiers to the rolls for the number of lots
available."
								--- GG

MINOR: pp.237, Step 7: Nature of Cargo
Some worlds don't have any trade classifications at all.
Fix: Add the instruction "Worlds with no trade classifications use table
8f".
								--- MG

MINOR: pp.243, Parts
The rules require the use of replacement parts to repair breakdowns, and
mention that replacement parts can frequently be purchased.  There are no
guidelines on the cost, volume, or mass of such parts, however.
Fix: Append some guidelines to help the referee determine the cost, mass,
and volume of repair parts.
								--- BJ

MINOR: pp.260, Battle Damage (vehicular robots)
The last paragraph on the page seems to refer to damage to the robot's
weaponry.
Fix: Insert an italicized "Main Armament:" before this paragraph.
								--- MG

MINOR: pp.306, Blister Agent
The last sentence of the paragraph states that "both masks and protective
suits" are required to be worn in order to be safe from blister
agents.  Particularly in light of the following section, this can be
confusing.
Fix: Change the sentence to read: "Characters wearing both masks and
protective suits, or wearing pressure suits (such as a vacc suit, combat
environment suit, combat armor, battle dress, etc.) are unaffected by
blister agents."
								--- GG

MINOR: pp.306, Nerve Gas
The second paragraph of this section states that one must wear "a
protective suit or pressure suit ... and a gas mask" in order to be
protected.  I wasn't aware that pressure suits (such as a vacc suit) leaked
when worn without a gas mask.
Fix: Change the last sentence of the paragraph to read: "Characters wearing
both masks and protective suits, or wearing pressure suits (such as a vacc
suit, combat environment suit, combat armor, battle dress, etc.) are
unaffected by nerve gas."
								--- GG

MINOR: pp.313, Speed Change and Compute New Range
The rules err by a factor of two when computing the velocity change due to
each G-turn of acceleration.  In addition, the velocity change is treated
as if it occurred instantly at the beginning of the turn.

Fix: Modify the "Speed Change" and "Compute New Range" paragraphs on
pp.313-314 to read as follows:

"Speed Change: Each ship may spend a number of G-turns limited by its G
rating (maneuver performance) in order to modify the closing velocity. 
Each G-turn of acceleration spent by a ship changes the closing velocity
for the next turn by one.  In addition, each 2 G-turns of acceleration
spent changes the closing velocity for the current turn by one (drop
fractions).  The closing velocity may be increased or decreased.  As
G-turns of acceleration are spent, players must declare whether they are
going to increase or decrease the closing velocity."

"Compute New Range: At the end of each turn, subtract the current closing
velocity (the velocity for this turn as computed above) from the current
range to get the new range for the next turn.  When the closing velocity is
a negative number, remember that subtracting a negative number is the same
as adding a positive number, thus actually increasing the range."

Alternate: The above, while accurately reflecting Newtonian physics, may
seem too complicated for some players.  Thus, the suggested simplified fix
is to alter the "Speed Change" and "Compute New Range" paragraphs on
pp.313-314 to read:

"Speed Change: Each ship may spend a number of G-turns limited by its G
rating (maneuver performance) in order to modify the closing velocity. 
Each G-turn of acceleration spent by a ship changes the closing velocity
for the next turn by one.  The closing velocity may be increased or
decreased.  As G-turns of acceleration are spent, players must declare
whether they are going to increase or decrease the closing velocity.

"Compute New Range: At the end of each turn, subtract the current closing
velocity (before the speed changes above) from the current range to get the
new range for the next turn.  When the closing velocity is a negative
number, remember that subtracting negative number is the same as adding a
positive number, thus actually increasing the range."

Commentary: From basic Newtonian physics, if acceleration is constant,
velocity is acceleration multiplied by time (V=A*T), and the distance
traveled is half of acceleration multiplied by time squared (D=1/2*A*T^2).

If Acceleration (A) is a constant 1g, then	A = 10 m/s^2 (1g)
Velocity (V) is acceleration times the time	V = 10 m/s^2 * 30 min
spent at that acceleration.			  = 10 m/s^2 * 1800 s
						  = 1800 m/s (64800 kph)
The Distance (D) traveled during this	D = 0.5 * 10 m/s^2 * (1800 s) ^2
acceleration is half the acceleration	  = 5 m/s^2 * 3240000 s^2
time the time squared.			  = 16,200,000 m

Putting this into T:TNE space combat terms, a velocity of 1 is one range
band per combat turn (30,000 km per 30 min; 60,000 kph).  A distance of 1
is one range band, 30,000 km, and the unit of time is a turn (30 minutes;
1800 s).

So, each G-Turn of acceleration increases the ship's velocity for the next
turn by slightly over 1 band/turn.  The distance traveled in the  current
turn during this acceleration is slightly more than a half a range band
per G-turn of acceleration expended, plus whatever distance is traveled due
to the velocity the ship started the turn with.

To help clarify what's going on, the following examples presume that a
standard Scout/Courier (maneuver 2G) is closing in at velocity 4 on a
patrol ship which is station-keeping 8 range bands away.  The scout ship
wants to brake to a stop as quickly as possible.  In all cases, the ship
brakes at 2g (2 G-Turns of acceleration) at a cost of 1 G-Hour of fuel
each turn.

Newtonian Physics: A = 20 m/s^2. V = 66667 m/s (240000 kph).  Solving for
T, we get the time to decelerate to a stop is T = 3333 s (55.6 min; or
about 2 turns).  Distance traveled while stopping is 111111 km (about 3.7
range bands).  Rounding fraction, we say that the ship is stopped at the
end of the second turn, 4 range bands from the patrol ship.

Using T:TNE as published, in the first turn, the scout/courier begins
braking.  Velocity changes by 1; the new velocity is 3, and the new range
is 5.  In the second turn, the scout continues braking; new velocity 2, new
range 3.  Turn 3: velocity 1, range 2.  Turn 4: the scout comes to a stop
at a range of 2.

With the fix, in the first turn, the current velocity decreases by 1, to 3,
and the next turn's velocity decreases by 2, to 2; the new range is 5.  In
the second turn, braking continues.  Current velocity drops by 1, to 1, and
the new velocity decreases by 2, to 0.  The ship will stop at the end of
the turn, and the new range is 4.

In the alternate scenario, the scout begins braking.  In the first turn, 
the next turn's velocity decreases by 2, to 2.  The new range is 6
(remember, the new range is figured with the old velocity).  In the second
turn, the current velocity is 2, the new velocity is 0, and the range is 4.
								--- GG

MINOR: pp.314, Evasion
The reference to "G-Hours" in the penultimate line on the left-hand column
is spurious.
Fix: Replace "G-Hours" with "G-Turns".
								--- GG

MINOR: pp.325, Hit Location table
This table and related notes, located in the bottom left corner of the
page, does not seem to be referenced by the text or by any of the
procedures on the page.
Fix: Delete the table.
								--- GG

MINOR: pp.337, Thermal Meteoroid Garments
These garments are listed as "armor 6, cloth-1" on the table.  Presumably
this is a hold-over from MegaTraveller.  In T:TNE terms, this is protection
equivalent to TL-12 battle dress, and for only Cr 400.
Fix: The armor value of Thermal Meteoroid Garments should be 1.
								--- BJ, GG

MINOR: pp.337, Long-Range Thruster Pack
The text, located  at the bottom of the left-hand column), states that this
device is capable of 2 Gs of thrust for 48 hours; that's 96 G-Hours.
Fix: Replace the last sentence of the column with: "The Long-Range Thruster
pack (LRTP) is heavy, but it provides up to 1/2 G acceleration for up to 4
hours, using standard starship fuel."

Commentary: Who needs a grav belt!  A Long-Range Thruster Pack has enough
acceleration to lift off of any terrestrial world, and with 48 hours
endurance, can hover indefinitely; all for a seventh the cost.  To put it
in perspective, this little device is capable of more than 13 round-trips
from the Earth to the Moon without refueling.
								--- BJ, GG

MINOR: pp.357, Grenades
The statistics for ordinary Hand Grenades seems to have been omitted.
Fix: Locate and insert this information.
								--- KH

MINOR: pp.368, Free Trader Damage Tables
Areas 17, 18, and 19 have no result listed, while areas 5 - 13 duplicate
entries listed elsewhere.
Fix: Remove the "5 - 13" entry, and move the "17, 18, 19" entry up one line
(so that these rolls indicate Engineering damage).
								--- MG

MINOR: pp.375, Donosev Class Survey Ship Damage Tables
Areas 12 - 15 do not appear on the damage tables.  While dispersed
structure ships may have hit locations which result in a miss, such areas
should be clearly labeled, if for no other reason that to assure the
reader that no mistake was made.  In any case, the Donosev Class ship
should not be a dispersed structure vessel.
Fix: Correct the damage table.
								--- MG, GG

MINOR: pp.376, Subsidized Liner Damage Tables
Area 13 is listed twice, once as "13 - 17", and once as "11 - 13".
Fix: Alter the first occurrence to read "14 - 17".
								--- MG

MINOR: pp.377, Broadsword Class Mercenary Cruiser Damage Tables
Area 12 is listed twice, once as "12 - 15", and once as "6 - 12".
Fix: Alter the second occurrence to read "6 - 11".
								--- MG
  -----8<-----

wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                 Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                            in the New Era


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
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Date: Sun, 04 Jul 93 22:00:03 EDT
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Subject: TML bundle #477: Msgs 5712-5717 
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Date: Sun, 04 Jul 93 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #477: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 477  5712 30-Jun-1993 Derek Wildstar   T:TNE Errata, part 2 of 3 << Part two o
 477  5713 30-Jun-1993 Derek Wildstar   T:TNE Errata, part 3 of 3 << Final part
 477  5714 01-Jul-1993 Bertil Jonell    Re: Erratas II << > Commentary: The spa
 477  5715 01-Jul-1993 Bertil Jonell    Re: Erratas... << > NIT: pp.88, Nicosa 
 477  5716 01-Jul-1993 u25601%uicvm.bi  subcription << Hey!
 477  5717 01-Jul-1993 Mark Urbin       TNE question on Penatrator type weapons

------------------------------

Bundle: 477
Archive-Message-Number: 5712
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 12:51:12 EDT
From: wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: T:TNE Errata, part 2 of 3


Part two of a three-part post.  Fixes are *NOT* official.

  -----8<-----
Traveller: The New Era --- ERRATA SHEET, part 2/2, version 1.00, 6-26-92


NIT: pp.17, Homeworld Random Generation Table
The chart of DMs is on the next page, making it easy to overlook and hard
to use.
Fix: Add a mention on the Homeworld Random Generation Table that the table
of modifiers on the next page.
								--- MG, GG

Commentary: I recommend that some of the more important charts be reprinted
in a small (16 page or so) booklet form and included in T:TNE Deluxe or the
T:TNE Referees' Screen.  If this is done, the Homeworld Random Generation
table and its chart of DMs should be on the same page.
								--- MG

NIT: pp.19, Homeworld Effects on Attributes
The modifiers are buried in the text, and difficult to find.
Fix: Place a table of the modifiers on the character generation worksheet.
								--- MG

NIT: pp.23, Background Skills
The background skills are not noted on the character generation worksheet.
Fix: Place a table of background skills on the character generation
worksheet.
								--- MG

NIT: pp.26, Secondary Activities
According to the information on pp.20, some careers offer the chance for
characters to increase their attributes.  However, the only careers that 
allow such increases are Athlete and Martial Artist.
Fix: Allow attribute increases as a secondary activity; two skill levels
for one attribute increase, up to a maximum of +2.
								--- BJ, GG

NIT: pp.40, Undergraduate University
According to the contacts available, the only people who ever attend
undergraduate universities are the professors and researchers, and
journalists.  No engineering, pre-med, history, law, or business students.
Fix: Contacts at Undergraduate University may be from potentially any
career.  The referee should decide what that person's field of study was at
the time, and any subsequent career changes.  
Alternate fix: Expand the definition of academic contacts to include
students (of potentially any field of study.  The refere is responsible for
determining what career the contact is currently pursuing. It may be
completely unrelated to his or her field of study.  In this case,
journalist contacts should be removed from Undergraduate University.
								--- GG

NIT: pp.40, Graduate University
The comments above about undergraduate university also apply to graduate
university.  There is, however, a higher probability that the contact will
be pursuing a career in a field related to his or her graduate studies.
Fix: Contacts at Graduate University may be from potentially any career.
The referee should decide what that person's field of study was at the
time, and any subsequent career changes.
Alternate fix: As above, and Government contacts should be removed from
Graduate University.
								--- GG

NIT: pp.56, Career Entry Requirements table
Contrary to the table's explanatory remarks, there are no careers listed
that have an education requirement in parentheses.
Fix: The last sentence should read: "Social Standing requirements in
parentheses show what is required to enter the career with a commission."  
The following table entries also need to be changed: Scientist and 
Aviation should show a minimum Soc of "(6+)".  Army, Marines, and Special 
Operations should have a minimum Soc of "(5+)".  Navy and Wet Navy should 
have a minimum Soc of "(7+)".
								--- GG

NIT: pp.57, Table of Ranks
At only one promotion per term, it will take a significant number of terms
to achieve a higher rank.  While this may be reasonable for officers, it is
not for the enlisted ranks.
Fix: Use a shorter enlisted rank structure as per Twilight: 2000 (2nd ed.).
								--- MG

NIT: pp.88, Nicosa Subsector data
Bhule, at hex 0334, should not be Industrial; it has atmosphere type 1,
which disqualifies it.
Fix: Remove "In" from the trade classifications for this world.
								--- GS

NIT: pp.94, Special Wilds Careers
Recommend adding a Psionic Priesthood and a Survivor career.  An NPC
template is provided for the latter, and it is one PCs from the wilds are
sure to be interested in.
Fix: Add the careers; possibly in a Challenge article or a special
supplement to Deluxe T:TNE.
								--- MG

NIT: pp.103, Khulam Subsector data
Several of the entries contain errors.
Fix: World 049-049 in hex 2839 should be trade class "Po".  Gresham in hex
3138 should not be "In".  Futok in hex 3140 should be "Ag".  The size class
VI stars at Agiruur (hex 3036) and Futok (hex 3140) should be "V".
								--- GS

Commentary: Sub-dwarf stars, luminosity class VI, which appeared in Classic
Traveller book 6, have apparently been removed from T:TNE.  Presumably this
was done on purpose, as the luminosity class tables (Steps 4 and 5 on
pp.192) have been completely changed.  If so, any references to luminosity
class VI stars remaining from Classic Traveller data files should be
revised.
								--- GG

NIT: pp.104, Khulam Subsector data
The world Quarry in hex 2933 now has tech level 3, but orbits a class M9 V
star, which has no habitable zone.
Fix: Make the world barren.
								--- GS

NIT: pp.106, Task Resolution and Skills
The second paragraph of the overview reads in part: "This chapter is
presented here, before character generation ...".  I hate to break the
news, but character generation starts back on pp.14, over 90 pages before.
Fix: Delete references to character generation following this section.
Alternate Fix: Move the section (pp.106-111) to begin around pp.14
								--- GG

NIT: pp.168, The Regency
The first sentence of the paragraph implies that Norris used to be First
Regent of the Domain of Deneb, until he renamed it "The Regency", at which
point he became Archduke.  This is exactly backwards.
Fix: The first sentence should read: "The Regency is the new name of the
Domain of Deneb by First Regent, then Archduke of Deneb, Norris."
								--- GG

NIT: pp.172, Regina subsector data
Several of the entries contain errors.
Fix: Knorbes in hex 1807 should not be "Ag".  Pscias in hex 2106 should be
"Ag".  Enope in hex 2205 should not be "In", but should be "Ic".  Heya in
hex 2402 should not be "Ag".  Rethe in hex 2408 should be "In".  Kinorb in
hex 2202 should be tech level 8.
								--- GS

NIT: pp.172, Regina subsector data
Three worlds have dim stars with no habitable zones, but have world data
inconsistent with their primaries.  The worlds are Algine in hex 2308,
which has a tech level 4 civilization.  Moughas at hex 2406 is supposed to
be a water world, although liquid water is not possible on its surface. 
Uakye was established as a habitable, although cold, in "A Plague of
Perruques" (Travellers' Digest #10) by Marc Miller and Gary L. Thomas.
Fix: Change Algine (hex 2308) to a M9 III.  Change Moughas (hex 2406) to a
K9 V.  Change Uakye (hex 1805) to a M0 V.
								--- GS

NIT: pp.172, Regina subsector map
Yorbund, at hex 2303, is shown as having water.  In fact, it has no water;
its oceans are fluid.
Fix: Change the map symbol for the world.
								--- GS

NIT: pp.178, Ershur Subsector data
The world of Towering has no trade classifications, and is missing a tab
needed to make its data align with the other entries.
Fix: Insert the tab.
								--- GS

NIT: pp.178, Ershur Subsector data
Barren worlds, like Observatory, do not have any trade classifications
other than "Ba".
Fix: Observatory in hex 0807 should not be "Lo", "Ni", or "Po".  
								--- GS

NIT: pp.178, Ershur Subsector data
There are several errors in the stellar data.  Villana has a tech level too
low for survival in a system that has no habitable zone.  There are also no
size class VI stars.
Fix: Change Villana at hex 0801 to a M9 III star.  Change the class VI
stars at Fournier (0304), Thallium (0307), Cleves (0403), Lebenstraum
(0503), Chamati (0602), and Raldery IV (0701) to class V.
								--- GS

NIT: pp.178, Ershur Subsector map
Vilardi, at hex 0205, is shown as having water.  In fact, it is a world
with Fluid oceans, and has no liquid water.
Fix: Change the map symbol for the world.
								--- GS

NIT: pp.186, Step 4: World Size
The planetary density table is way over on pp.190; hard to find and hard to
remember.
Fix: Add a note to the step referencing the density table on pp.190.
								--- MG

NIT: pp.188, World Size table
The table is missing the sizes for large and small gas giants.
Fix: Small Gas Giants have a minimum diameter of 20,000km and a maximum
diameter of 59,999km.  Large Gas Giants have a minimum diameter of 60,000km
and a maximum diameter of 120,000km.
								--- GG

NIT: pp.189, World Physical Data table
The entry for hydrographics code 3 indicates "Dry".
Fix: It should read "Wet".
								--- MG

NIT: pp.193, Step 13: Orbit Zones
No instructions are given for stars whose spectral classification falls
between the table entries.
Fix: Add the instruction "If the spectral class of the star in question is
not on the table, use the column of the nearest listed spectral class.  For
example, a G3 star would use the G5 column of the table."
								--- JD

NIT: pp.198, Terrain and Travel
Mention should be made in this section that flying vehicles, including
helicopters, aircraft, and grav vehicles may choose to fly above the
terrain, therefore avoiding any terrain effects.
Fix: Mention this fact.
								--- GG

NIT: pp.225, Step 6: 100 Diameters Travel Times table
The table is incorrect in almost every entry.
Fix: The corrected table is below:

100 Diameters Travel Times

World size:
               0         1         2         3         4         5
G-hours
     0.1     50m*      12.7      25.3      38.0      50.7      63.4
     0.2     25m        6.3      12.7      19.0      25.3      31.7
     0.3     17m/==     4.2       8.4      12.7      16.9      21.1
     0.4     13m/==     3.2       6.3       9.5      12.7      15.8
     0.5     10m/==     2.5       5.1       7.6      10.1      12.7
     0.6      9m/==     2.1       4.2       6.3       8.4      10.6
     0.7      ==        1.8       3.6       5.4       7.2       9.1
     0.8      ==        1.6       3.2       4.8       6.3       7.9
     0.9      ==        1.4       2.8       4.2       5.6       7.0

World Size:
               6         7         8         9         A         SGG
G-hours
     0.1     76.0      88.7     101.4     114.0     126.7      472.4
     0.2     38.0      44.3      50.7      57.0      63.4      236.2
     0.3     25.3      29.6      33.8      38.0      42.2      157.5
     0.4     19.0      22.2      25.3      28.5      31.7      118.2
     0.5     15.2      17.7      20.3      22.8      25.3       94.5
     0.6     12.7      14.8      16.9      19.0      21.1       78.7
     0.7     10.9      12.7      14.5      16.3      18.1       67.5
     0.8      9.5      11.1      12.7      14.3      15.8       59.0
     0.9      8.4       9.9      11.3      12.7      14.1       42.5

World size:
               LGG
G-Hours
     0.1     944.8
     0.2     472.4
     0.3     315.0
     0.4     236.2
     0.5     189.0
     0.6     157.5
     0.7     135.0
     0.8     118.1
     0.9     105.0

Time in hours unless otherwise mentioned.  
Accurate to 1/10 hour. 
==: is time required to expend the specified G-hours.  
time/==: is (specified time OR time required to expend specified G-hours,
whichever is GREATER) OR 25 min, whichever is LESS.  Basically a really
short time.

Commentary:  Note that the basic assumption that G-hours can be used as a
velocity in these calculations is adhered to, though many of the numbers in
the size-0 column are small enough that the assumption is not really valid.
The value for 0.1 G-Hour and a size 0 world is ASSUMED to be correct,
just because I have no reason to believe that there IS a correct answer to
that particular question.  Other values for the size-0 case are based upon
this. It is assumed that Neptune is the size of the generic Small Gas
Giant.  Neptune has a diameter of ~49,000Km.  It is assumed that Jupiter is
the size of the generic Large Gas Giant.  Jupiter has a diameter of
~138,000Km.
								--- SH

Commentary: Steve's calculations for large and small gas giants were
corrected to Traveller "Standard" large and small gas giants (120,000km and
60,000km, respectively).  For small gas giants, Steve's values were
multiplied by 60/49 (or about 1.224); for large gas giants, the factor was
120/138 (or about 0.8696).
								--- GG

NIT: pp.226, Step 10: Emerge from Jump Space
The second sentence of the second paragraph is confusing at best.
Fix: Replace the second sentence with: "Outstanding Success indicates that
no course correction is needed; the ship's exit point is correctly
positioned so its residual velocity will take it from 100 diameters to 10
diameters."
								--- GG

NIT: pp.226-227, Step 14: Interplanetary Distance Matrix table
The table as published is incorrect in almost every entry.
Fix: The corrected table is presented below:

Interplanetary Distance Matrix

Outer orbit number
                         1         2         3         4         5
Inner orbit number

      0     (10)       100*      250*      400*      700*     1300*
      1     (20)                 150*      300*      600*     1200*
      2     (35)                           150       450*     1050*
      3     (50)                                     300*      900*
      4     (80)                                               600*

                         6         7         8         9         10
Inner orbit number

      0     (10)      2500      4900*     9700     19300      38500
      1     (20)      2400      4800*     9600     19200      38400
      2     (35)      2250      4650*     9450     19050      38250
      3     (50)      2100      4500*     9300     18900      38100
      4     (80)      1800      4200*     9000     18600      37800
      5    (140)      1200      3600*     8400     18000      37200
      6    (260)                2400      7200     16800      36000*
      7    (500)                          4800     14400      33600
      8    (980)                                    9600      28800
      9   (1940)                                              19200

                         11        12        13        14        15
Inner orbit number

      0     (10)      76900    153700    307300    614500   1273900
      1     (20)      76800    152600    307200    614400   1273800
      2     (35)      76650    152450    307050    614250   1273650
      3     (50)      76500    152300    306900    614100   1273500
      4     (80)      76200    152000    306600    613800   1273200
      5    (140)      75600    151400    306000    613200   1272600
      6    (260)      74400    150200    304800    612000   1271400
      7    (500)      72000    147800    302400    609600   1269000
      8    (980)      67200    143000*   297600    604800   1264200
      9   (1940)      57600    133400    288000    595200   1254600
     10   (3860)      38400    114200    268800    576000   1235400
     11   (7700)                76800    231400    538600   1198000
     12  (15380)                         153600    460800   1120200
     13  (30740)                                   307200    966600
     14  (61460)                                             659400

                         16        17        18        19
Inner orbit number

      0     (10)    2457700   4915300   9830500  19665900
      1     (20)    2457600   4915200   9830400  19665800
      2     (35)    2457450   4915050   9830250  19665650
      3     (50)    2457300   4914900   9830100  19665500
      4     (80)    2457000   4914600   9829800  19665200
      5    (140)    2456400   4914000   9829200  19664600
      6    (260)    2455200   4912800   9828000  19663400
      7    (500)    2452800   4910400   9825600  19661000
      8    (980)    2448000   4905600   9820800  19656200
      9   (1940)    2438400   4896000   9811200  19646600
     10   (3860)    2419200   4876800   9792000  19627400
     11   (7700)    2380800   4838400   9753600  19589000
     12  (15380)    2304000   4761600   9676800  19512200
     13  (30740)    2150400   4608000   9523200  19358600
     14  (61460)    1843200   4300800   9216000  19051400
     15 (127400)    1183800   3641400   8556600  18392000
     16 (245780)              2457600   7372800  17208200
     17 (491540)                        4915200  14750600
     18 (983060)                                  9835400


Commentary: Note that any distance over ~120,000 light seconds will take
the fastest ship listed in T:TNE over one year to cross, so the parts of
this table dealing with the orbits 13+ are especially meaningless. Note
also that any ship can jump to any orbit 7+ faster than it can cross the
distance in normal space. Finally, the entries that were correct in the
initial tables are marked with an '*' (all 22 of them)
								--- SH

NIT: pp.227, Step 14: Interplanetary Speed table
The table as presented is incorrect in every entry.
Fix: The corrected table follows:

Interplanetary Speed

          Time (min)
G-Hours
     1       142
     2        71
     3        47
     4        35
     5        28
     6        24
     7        20
     8        18
     9        16

Commentary: Note that these values are about 25% lower than those on the
original table.  Which means transits are 25% FASTER.
								--- SH

NIT: pp.241, Potential Breakdowns
The wear and potential breakdown rules are presumably to be applied to
starships as well as other types of equipment.  However, there is a rather
sticky problem: consider a starship in jump space.  If the ship's power
plant fails, life support will stop, and everybody aboard the ship will die
in a number of hours.  
Fix: Unlike vehicles, starship systems should be designed for 24 hour a
day, 7 day a week performance.  Roll for potential breakdowns twice per 
week (once on leaving orbit, and once on exit from jump space) instead of 
once per 8 hours.
Alternate fix: Assume the starships vital systems (power plant and life
support as a minimum) have integral multiply-redundant internal backups, so
that breakdowns are not life-threatening unless ignored for more than a
week.

Commentary: There are 21 8-hour periods in a typical 7 day jump; for a
power plant with a wear value of 1, this is a 74.5% chance that a potential
breakdown will occur within the first 4 days of the jump.  Assuming that
the engineer has a relevant asset of 10, there is an 87.5% chance that
there will be an actual breakdown sometime during the next day.  Overall
about a 65.2% chance of a power failure sometime during the jump.
								--- GG

NIT: pp.242, Increasing Wear; last paragraph in the section
When keeping separate track of the wear value individual components
separately, care must be taken to keep the combination under control.  
Fix: When tracking the wear value of components separately, the referee
should assign wear values that are no greater than the overall wear value
of the vehicle.  Each period, only one die roll is made.  It the number
rolled is greater than the overall wear value of the vehicle, no potential
breakdown occurs.  If a potential breakdown does occur, the referee must
randomly choose one component from all those components with a wear value
less than or equal to the number rolled.  As component wear values change,
the vehicle's overall wear value is the same as the highest wear value of
any of the components.

Commentary: For example, a vehicle with wear value of 5 is broken down into
4 components, each of which are given a wear value of 5.  If 4 rolls, one
for each of the components, are made each period, there is a 93.75% chance
that at least one of the components will have a potential breakdown each
period; effectively a wear value of 10.  With the fixed rules, potential
breakdowns still occur only 50% of the time.
								--- GG

NIT: pp.248, Psionics Skill Cluster
The Foreboding skill of the arcana sub-cluster is missing from the table,
but present in the text.
Fix: Add it to the table.
								--- GG

NIT: pp.258, Psionics
The descriptions of the effects of the different power levels is buried in
the text, and hard to pick out.
Fix: Prepare a table listing these effects.
								--- MG

NIT: pp.262, Ling-Standard Products PR-317
This guard robot looks strangely like a Zhodani warbot.
								--- MG

NIT: pp.273, SAR (Single Action Revolver)
A single-acting revolver can be "fanned".  This consists of holding the
trigger back and rapidly cocking and releasing the hammer with the other
hand (much easier to demonstrate than to explain).
Fix: Single-acting revolvers can be "fanned"; firing up to three rounds per
fire action.  "Fanning" also increases the difficulty of all of the shots
by one level.
								--- GG

NIT: pp.313, third line from the top in the left-hand column
There are no damage control rules at right, or anywhere else that I can
find for that matter.
Fix: Provide a page number reference (after adding the damage control rules
if they have been inadvertently left out).
Alternate fix: Delete the reference to non-existent rules.
								--- GG

NIT: pp.322 and pp.326: Fuel hits
The rules provide a die roll for determining how many tons of fuel are lost
as a result of battle damage.  Unfortunately, starship fuel is given in
cubic meters, not tons, in the starship descriptions.
Fix: Insert the comment "(one ton is 14 cubic meters)." to each reference
to tons of fuel lost.
								--- BJ

NIT: pp.333, Engineer Demolition Kit
The description states that "Items without a weight, etc. are not available
separately."  Strictly speaking, no item listed is without a "weight,
etc.", however many are listed with negligible weight.
Fix: Delete the sentence restricting availability.  Everything described
has a price listed and can be bought.
								--- GG

NIT: pp.341, Data-Display Recorder Headpiece
In the description of this device, commdots and commdot multiplexers are
mentioned.  Unfortunately, the commdots and their multiplexer do not appear
in the equipment listing at all.
Fix: Replace the last two sentences in the first paragraph of the
description with: "Although useless by itself, the headpiece can be
interfaced with any number of Tech Level 13+ devices."
Alternate Fix: Add the information on commdots and commdot multiplexers to
the communications section of the equipment lists.
								--- MU

NIT: pp.345: Locator, Inertial; and pp.346: Navigator, Inertial
The same problem as in the MegaTraveller Imperial Encyclopedia.  The
Inertial Locator is a heavier, more expensive, TL-9 version of the cheap
lightweight, TL-8 Inertial Navigator.  The Inertial Locator also features
slightly less utility and a more cryptic description.
Fix: Remove the entry for "Locator, Inertial" on pp.345
								--- BJ

NIT: pp.357, 4cm RAM Shoot-Through Grenade
There is no listing for 4cm RAM grenades for use with weapons that have an
integral grenade launcher.
Fix: Presumably the convention 4cm RAM grenades have the same
characteristics as 4cm RAM shoot-through grenades.  A comment to this
effect should be included.
								--- MG, GG

NIT: pp.359, Armor
Reflec armor has disappeared.  With the new lower penetration personal
lasers, most armor will stop lasers.  However, it would be handy to have an
armor specifically designed to stop lasers.
Fix: Add reflec to the table, with an armor value of 0 and a lower price.
								--- MG

Commentary:  I note on pp.298, "Lasers are more efficient at penetrating
armor than they are at delivering damage".  This is certainly true for
vehicle and starship lasers.  However, an examination of the small-arms
lasers indicates that they are very poor at penetrating armor, but very
good at delivering damage to an unarmored target.  Is this really the
intended effect?  Perhaps small-arms lasers should have a penetration value
of 1/4, and about half the damage value listed.
								--- GG

NIT: pp.359, Armor: Combat Environment Suit
The suit listed has no associated helmet.  Such a suit should have a
visored helmet.  A visored helmet does not appear on the chart until TL 10.
Fix: Add an integral helmet to the suit; add H (head) to the coverage
codes.
								--- MG

NIT: pp.347, Remote Deployable Sensor
The device has a collapsed volume of 26 kiloliters, and a weight of 260
metric tons.  Therefore it has a density of 10 g/cc; slightly less than
that of solid lead.  Aluminum (density 2.6) or titanium (density 4.5) might
be more representative of the materials the device is made out of. 
Fix: The weight of the Remote Deployable Sensor should be about 100 tons.

Commentary: When estimating the weights and volumes of various items, a
couple of comparisons like those on the following table frequently comes in
handy.  From Thomas Glover's "Pocket Ref" (Abbeon Cal, 123-33T Gray Ave,
Santa Barbra, CA).  The table shows the mass (in kilograms) of one cubic
meter of each substance:

Ground Cork		   160.2
Wood (chestnut)		   480.6
Soy Beans		   720.8
Pure Water		 1,000.0
Crushed Stone		 1,601.8
Aluminum		 2,643.1
Basalt (rock)		 3,011.5
Hematite (iron ore)	 3,219.7
Titanium		 4,540.0
Bronze			 8,153.4
Copper			 8.906.3
Iron			 7.769.0
Lead			11,389.1
Gold			19,286.3
								--- GG

NIT: pp.356, Plasma Bazooka
The explanatory note mentions both a solid rocket motor and using part of
the plasma jet for recoil compensation.  Shouldn't it be one or the other,
and not both?
Fix: The next to the last sentence should read: "The bazooka has
considerable back blast, as the rocket exhaust is vented to the rear.  The
rocket ignition is synchronized to the firing of the plasma jet, to reduce
recoil to a manageable level."
								--- GG

TYPO: pp.38, last paragraph of Stellar Regions (middle of right column)
The earlier text, and the Stellar Regions DMs table, indicate a maximum
wear value (and therefore a maximum total value modifier) of 8.  This
paragraph states a value of 10.
Fix: Alter the first and last sentences of the paragraph; replace "10" with
"8" in both instances.
								--- GG

TYPO: pp.65, Lancer: Other Assets.
Technician is a cluster skill, and should be boldface.
								--- GG

TYPO: pp.112, Skill Descriptions; first paragraph
The specific meaning of "-" is detailed only for Tech Level requirements. 
The "-" code is also used for Law Level, where it has a slightly different
meaning.
Fix: Add a sentence explaining that the notation "-" next to a homeworld
description indicates the maximum allowable standard for the skill.  The
specific instructions for Tech Level are an exception to this.
								--- GG

TYPO: pp.174, Government
The last sentence of the second paragraph seems to imply that Count
Nolanar, or his daughters, have discovered the secret of time travel.
Fix: The sentence should read: "The transition of government will not be
complete until the end of 1200."
								--- GG  

TYPO: pp.183, Hydrosphere; last paragraph
The last two sentences are missing a "%" sign after the numbers.
Fix: The end of the paragraph should read: "A desert world may have up to
4% free-standing water and still be considered a desert world.  Conversely,
a water world may have a 95% hydrosphere and still be considered a water
world."
								--- GG

TYPO: pp.189, World Law Level
The entry for law level 6, reads: "Moderate (all firearms except firearms
prohibited)".
Fix: Change the second occurrence of firearms to read "Shotguns".
								--- MG

TYPO: pp.192, Step 5: Decimal Classification
The instruction "Roll 1D10 and treat a roll of 0 as ) (instead of 10)."
contains a typographical error.
Fix: Replace the ")" with "0".
								--- GS
TYPO: pp.195, Step 41: Subordinate Government table
The entry "Self-Perpetuating Democracy" is not a reasonable Traveller
government type.
Fix: The entry should read: "Self-Perpetuating Oligarchy".
								--- GS

TYPO: pp.197: Non-Terrestrial Environments
The penultimate sentence of the first paragraph in this section states that
"The effects of gravity have already been discussed in the context of
combat in the Combat chapter."  Unfortunately for the first-time reader,
the combat chapter has not yet been presented at this point.
Fix: Alter the sentence to read: "The effects of gravity in the context of
combat are discussed in the Combat chapter, beginning on pp.307."
								--- GG

TYPO: pp.228, Step 3: Non-starship Mission table
Several die rolls are have a caret "^" before the number.
Fix: Delete the carets.
								--- BJ

TYPO: pp.291, Water Vessels
What is a "SWATH" ship?
Fix: Remove the reference to "SWATH ships" in the first sentence.
Alternate Fix: Define what a "SWATH ship" is.
								--- GG

TYPO: pp.301, Instruments
While I suppose an aircraft or grav vehicle might carry a wind speed
indicator (which would logically enough, measure the speed of the wind in
relation to the ground), a more common device would be an airspeed
indicator (which measures the vehicle's speed through the air).
Fix: replace "wind speed indicator" with "airspeed indicator".
								--- GG

TYPO: pp.302, Vehicle Collision Examples
The example states that (95 x 2) / 10 is 35.  It is not; 19 is correct, and
is used throughout the rest of the example.
Fix: The correct answer is 19.
								--- MG

TYPO: pp.337, Accessories
The following makes no sense: "Batteries power the air recycler achieve
capacity; ..."
Fix: The fragment should read: "Batteries power the air recycler; ...".
								--- GG

TYPO: pp.347. "Sniffer" Bioscanner (illustration)
The device illustrated is a NAS sensor handset and backpack.
								--- ??

TYPO: pp.348, Bays
The first sentence is ungrammatical, and probably incorrect as well.
Fix: The section should begin "Bays are built ..."
								--- GG
TYPO: pp.348, Short
The definition of a range band is given incorrectly.
Fix: The parenthetical comment should be: "(tenths of a light-second)".
								--- GG

TYPO: pp.351, Slug Rifles and Carbines
There are no 13mm rifles listed in the table.
Fix: The explanatory note should read: "Most rifles shown are combat
weapons, although the 12mm rifle is a double-barrel big game rifle used
exclusively for hunting and sport."
								--- GG

TYPO: pp.360, Vehicle Data
Near the bottom of the right-hand column, the explanation reads "H: Hull
armor.  The face of the turret is indicated ...".  This is incorrect.
Fix: The sentence in question should read: "H: Hull armor.  The face of the
hull is indicated ...".
								--- GG

  -----8<-----

wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                 Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                            in the New Era


------------------------------

Bundle: 477
Archive-Message-Number: 5713
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 12:52:22 EDT
From: wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: T:TNE Errata, part 3 of 3


Final part of a three-part post.  Answers are *NOT* official.

  -----8<-----
Traveller: The New Era --- QUESTIONS

Compiled by Guy Garnett.  Contributions from Bertil Jonell (BJ), John
Driver (JD), Mark Gelinas (MG), Guy Garnett (GG), and the Traveller Mailing
List.

These questions have come up in the course of playing T:TNE, and were
reported to me along with the errata.  They aren't really errors, but just
interesting observations and random rules questions.


Q: Is it balanced that starships take several critical hits from
various weapons (primarily anti-tank weapons) that *might* (or might not)
destroy a much smaller TL-8 tank?  Or should the Critical Damage Table
(T:TNE, pp.326) only be used for weapons that are specifically
anti-spaceship weapons?
								--- BJ

Q: When firing anti-vehicle weapons at starships, the rules (T:TNE pp.295)
specifically states spacecraft should use the ground vehicle hit tables and
the ground vehicle penetration rules.  Shouldn't spacecraft use their own
hit tables and rules, instead of the ground vehicle ones?
								--- GG

Q: When generating companion star type and size, the previous roll for
primary star size is a +DM.  This will easily lead to values that are above
12, while results of less than 4 are impossible.  The rules don't indicate
what to do with values that go off the top of the chart.  Should they be
re-rolled, or should values be limited to 12? [Classic Traveller Book 6,
Scouts, has this same problem].
								--- JD

Q: When generating a star system, what do you do when there are more
objects to place than available orbits?
								--- JD

Q: What about when all the habitable zones are empty orbits?
								--- JD

Q: Missiles are now riotously expensive.  How about some standard HE
missiles in the starship combat game and the technical architecture
supplement?							--- MG

Commentary: We have looked into this problem.  You don't want to use HE
missiles in space combat; explosives just aren't effective at the speeds
and ranges involved.  However, we have come up with a number of other
alternatives, which will be posted to TML and sent to GDW.
								--- BJ, GG

Q: Nearly all of the vehicles listed in T:TNE, in particular the Tracked
ATV, Wheeled ATV, Air/Rafts, G-Carrier, Speeder, and Grav Bike) have
oxygen-breathing power plants of the gas turbine, MHD turbine, and fuel
cell types.  No oxygen supply is listed in the vehicle specifications, nor
are any intake compressors.  Therefore, none of these vehicles can be used
in Vacuum, Trace, Very Thin, Exotic, Corrosive, or Insidious atmospheres,
or in space.  The only listed vehicles which are operable in these
atmospheres is the Grav Tank, and the starships and spacecraft.  
Correct?
								--- GG

Q: Energy Weapons skill is listed twice, once under Strength and once
under Agility, on the skill list.  Shouldn't it be listed only under
Agility?

A: No.  STR is the controlling attribute for energy weapons skill when
using Plasma and Fusion weapons.  AGL is the controlling attribute when
using lasers.
								--- MG, GG

Q: The starship and spacecraft listings don't seem to have an entry for
total fuel capacity.  How do you tell how much fuel to purchase if you're
not gas-giant skimming.

A: Under the "Notes" section in the listing, the total fuel volume is
listed in kiloliters.  Divide this number by 14 to get displacement tons
of fuel.
								--- MG, GG
  -----8<-----

wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                 Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                            in the New Era


------------------------------

Bundle: 477
Archive-Message-Number: 5714
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: Erratas II
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 13:56:56 +0200 (MET DST)

> Commentary: The space travel procedure specifies checking for starship
> encounters at least four times during an interstellar trip.  In the wilds,
> about a third of these checks will result in a ship.

  If you factor in the starport type too, presumably most often X in the wilds,
there won't be *any* encounters there. Instead there will be 52% to encounter
a ship in the wilds in a system with an E port and your figures are correct
for C and D ports.

  More interesting perhaps is that an encounter with a vampire will occur in
on average every 4th E-Wild system and every second C/D-Wild system.
  In two of three A-Pocket systems, a vampire will be encountered, as in
every second B-Pocket system, 43% of the C/D-Pocket systems, every third
E-Pocket system and every fourth X-Pocket system.
  Most of those vampires will be big ugly cruisers and escorts.

> wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."


------------------------------

Bundle: 477
Archive-Message-Number: 5715
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: Erratas...
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 13:29:01 +0200 (MET DST)

> NIT: pp.88, Nicosa Subsector data
> Bhule, at hex 0334, should not be Industrial; it has atmosphere type 1,
> which disqualifies it.
> Fix: Remove "In" from the trade classifications for this world.
> 								--- GS

  I think it is the definition of Industrial that is broken. The Traveller
Book and Merchant Prince gives the Atmosphere requirements as 2-,4,7,9 but in
MegaT and TTNE it is given as 2-4,7,9.

  I suspect the missing ',' is a typo in MegaTraveller that has been
inadvertently carried over to TTNE.

  Comment: Many worlds in old Traveller, *and* in MegaTraveller, were 
Industrial with atmosphere 0, 1 and 2. The most famous example is probably
Glisten.

> NIT: pp.273, SAR (Single Action Revolver)
> A single-acting revolver can be "fanned".  This consists of holding the
> trigger back and rapidly cocking and releasing the hammer with the other
> hand (much easier to demonstrate than to explain).
> Fix: Single-acting revolvers can be "fanned"; firing up to three rounds per
> fire action.  "Fanning" also increases the difficulty of all of the shots
> by one level.

  I'm redoing all the weapons (and more:) with 3G^3(*) and ran into this 
problem too.

  Reality check: Single action revolvers has to be manually recocked between
each shot. This can *usually* be done with the thumb of the firing hand but
it makes it noticable slower than a double action.
  Double action revolvers turn the cylinder and cock the hammer when you pull
the trigger. This makes the trigger pull much harder than for a semiauto and
this will affect accuracy when firing fast.

  My rules: (Not a suggestion really, since they are rather complex) 
  SAR fires a maximum of 2 rounds per phase.
  DAR has a maximum of 5, *but* for each beyond the second, add 1 to the 
recoil mod. 
  Example: 4 rounds are fired from a DAR with a recoil mod of 2: The total
recoil is 2+2+3+4, aka 11. If it had been 5 rounds the recoil would have
been 2+2+3+4+5 aka 16.

  (*) "Again?" they groan:)

> TYPO: pp.347. "Sniffer" Bioscanner (illustration)
> The device illustrated is a NAS sensor handset and backpack.

  Correction: it is not a NAS, and probably a sniffer. In my defence I must 
point out that I did the review after some hours of reading it, and I didn't
find the old equipment pictures until a few days ago.

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."


------------------------------

Bundle: 477
Archive-Message-Number: 5716
Date: 	Thu, 1 Jul 1993 10:57:59 -0400
From: u25601%uicvm.bitnet@utcc.toronto.edu
Subject:      subcription

Hey!
    My name is Chris Lihosit and I play T2300.  Would you please add me to your
mailing list for Traveller?
                           My e-mail address is:
                            u25601@uicvm.uic.edu


                                      ThanX, Chris

------------------------------

Bundle: 477
Archive-Message-Number: 5717
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 16:24:44 -0400
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@interlan.interlan.com>
Subject: TNE question on Penatrator type weapons


I've been reading over the penatration rules for plama/fusion weapons (pg 297)
and am a wee bit confused.  It goes over how the penatration values are to 
be used against vehicles.  It also says to use the constant damage values
against personnel.
  So what I'm seeing is that a TL 9 fusion rifle will cut through a suit
of TL F battle dress like a blowtorch through butter and deliver 9d6 to
the wearer.  If I'm wrong about this, please correct me.  An explanation 
and a page number of the correct rules would be nice.
  I don't know if this made DW's errata list, but last night I noticed some
errors describing the plasma/fusion weapons.  It's the TL F fusion gun that
has the grav module to counteract the recoil (i.e. no Battle Dress required),
not the TL E fusion gun.  I'll post the other one when I get home and have
my book in front of me.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Urbin  Racal-Interlan   Boxborough, MA  These opinions are mine.
"Count Erskyll said nothing for a moment. He was opposed to the use of force.
Force, he believed, was the last resort of incompetence; he had said so 
often enough since this operation had begun. Of course, he was absolutely 
right, though not in the way he meant. Only the incompetent wait until the
last extremity to use force, and by then, it is usually too late to use 
anything, even prayer." -- _A Slave Is A Slave_ by H. Beam Piper
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 93 22:00:04 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #478: Msgs 5718-5734 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Sun Jul 11 22:00:03 EDT 1993
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 93 22:00:04 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #478: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 478  5718 01-Jul-1993 Derek Wildstar   Penetrator Weapons << Mark Urbin <urbin
 478  5719 01-Jul-1993 James M. Kelleh  More thoughts... << I have some more th
 478  5720 02-Jul-1993 R. Allen Wilkin  New player needs help << Hi,
 478  5721 03-Jul-1993 James Kundert    Fusion Guns and Errata << From the just
 478  5722 04-Jul-1993 Bertil Jonell    Space combats... <<   So far five insta
 478  5723 05-Jul-1993 Bertil Jonell    Minor Races List << > has anyone on the
 478  5724 05-Jul-1993 Alan Huscroft    Re: Minor races list << > From: Bertil 
 478  5725 05-Jul-1993 Mark Urbin       more TNE errata fodder <<  
 478  5726 05-Jul-1993 Steve Bonnevill  NEW ALIEN RACES LIST << Is this somethi
 478  5727 06-Jul-1993 Derek Wildstar   Reminder: Classic Traveller "Wake"! << 
 478  5728 06-Jul-1993 Bertil Jonell    Traveller Sports <<   (Sorry if this ha
 478  5729 06-Jul-1993 John H Bogan     Minor races already in Reavers Deep (fw
 478  5730 06-Jul-1993 nosnhoJ enaD     MHD Turbines... << Okay, somebody more 
 478  5731 06-Jul-1993 nosnhoJ enaD     Wake... << Maryland, eh?  Anybody stuck
 478  5732 07-Jul-1993 gwh@lurnix.COM   Re: Wake << Wildstar, I'm afraid I won'
 478  5733 08-Jul-1993 Bertil Jonell    Re: MHD << > From: dane@retzlaff.llnl.g
 478  5734 07-Jul-1993 Seriously Tweak  west coast wake << well, I'm game too f

------------------------------

Bundle: 478
Archive-Message-Number: 5718
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 23:42:30 EDT
From: wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: Penetrator Weapons

Mark Urbin <urbin@interlan.interlan.com> writes:
>   So what I'm seeing is that a TL 9 fusion rifle will cut through a suit
> of TL F battle dress like a blowtorch through butter and deliver 9d6 to
> the wearer.

THat's the way I read the rules, too.  Any other interpretations make
even less sense.

Speaking of things in T:TNE that just don't make sense, here are a
couple:  A TL-9 Laser Rifle does 10d6 of damage to an unarmored target,
but bounces totally (no damage whatsoever) off of ballistic cloth, or
any other type of armor.  A TL-13 laser rifle will actually get good
damage through Cloth or TL-10 combat armor, but is completely stymied by
TL-10 battle dress (or better).

If you want to poke holes in battle dress, you best (non high
energy weapon) choices are: a TL-7 9mm rifle (1d6 through TL-10 battle
dress) or a LAG (2d6).

A TL-13 Gauss Pistol is ineffective against TL-8 Ballistic Weave (or
Cloth, or a TL-5 Flak Jacket for that matter); however, a TL-5 9mm
magnum revolver isn't (gets 1d6 through any of those).

Grumble.  I *still* prefer the Striker/Azhanti High Lightning/Snapshot.

>   I don't know if this made DW's errata list, but last night I noticed some
> errors describing the plasma/fusion weapons.  It's the TL F fusion gun that
> has the grav module to counteract the recoil (i.e. no Battle Dress required),

That section is *very* unclear as to what rules apply to which weapons.
I presume (based on Classic Traveller and MegaTraveller definitions)
that the TL-12 and TL-13 "Plasma Rifles" correspond to PGMP-12 and
PGMP-13, respectively (require Battle Dress).  THe TL-14 Plasma Rifle
presumable corresponds to PGMP-14 and requires no battle dress.  The
"Light Fusion Rifle" probably is an FGMP-14, and requires battle dress,
while the TL-15 "Fusion Rifle" does not. 

In any case, you're right: that section is very confusing, and should
probably be in the errata.


wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                 Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                         in the Far Future


------------------------------

Bundle: 478
Archive-Message-Number: 5719
Subject: More thoughts...
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 22:51:29 PDT
From: James M. Kelleher <kelleher@holonet.net>

I have some more thoughts and as I'm trying to keep these short Really I am
:-)

>Dave's answer was that the drive uses a heat exchange system to heat    
>LH2 in the thrust chamber using energy from the fusion reactor.  No    
>fusion, no radiation, no massive damage.

> wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu 



Excuse me if I make a fool of myself ( not the first time :-) ) but 

it seems to me that the super-heated form of matter is what is called 

a plasma state?? Oh GOOD we have just changed a Fusion gun for a    
Plasma weapon... I hope I haven't opened that can of worms again...



>allows the older Traveller stuff to work with the new mechanics. I    
>like Traveller with the Johnny Quest flare. Ships landing with a loud    
>hum instead of nuclear hell. 

>Will Hartung 



I find that I agree. The more I think about it I think that the    
Thruster technology will remain in My game but in the wilds and in the 

unexplored parts of the Galaxy you may find more fusion or Plasma (    
see above ) drives. I think that such a dangerous device might be    
considerably regulated and many tests of ship captains and pilots    
would be required.



>"The Once and Future Emperor"

>Hello fellow Travellers,

>I checked out the adventure "The Once and Future Emperor", and found,    
>that the code used there has a lot of typos in it.

>Bug 1:

>In the "Inscription on the Tetrahedron"(p.145) the first line of code    
>should read "37265719 2959 37265719" because the code for "F" is "37"    
>not "17", as mentioned on page 152.

>The key for the code on page 152 is buggy too:

>Bug 2: Code for "N" is 47 and Codes for "Y" are 59 and 50! There is    
>no "Z" in the whole message, but 50 and 59 are used for coding "Y".

>Bug 3: In the "Directions to Gherard's Tomb" are some misplaced    
>numbers, and the problem according "Y" mentioned above. There are at    
>least 6 errors, most of the time one numeral is wrong. If someone is    
>interested, I can send the corrected code to him.

>Juergen

>Juergen Kirsch Institut fuer Informatik, Universitaet Bonn Germany    
>kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de



yes please, I may never run that particular scenario but I like    
throwing out that kind of puzzle to my players. We like a more    
intellectual game not much combat... THAT'S Dangerous... You could get     
HURT that way...

and the address is... Deep Purple... or was it, It's a Beautiful Day?

kelleher@holonet.net

Thanks 

- -- jim --



>  One thing that I noticed when the PC's went up against very big    
>nasties in DarkCon was that even those big nasties were very    
>vulnerable to high volumes of low power fire.

>  For example, assuming that an Elephant has 80 hits, it would stand    
>up to exactly 22 9mm hits, or 6 7.62 hits. That mean that the poor    
>trunkist is down after five or ten seconds when faced with 5 PC's    
>with semi-auto *pistols*.

>  So, I have experimented with a rule that limits the damage done by    
>small weapons against large targets: ie you might be hitting the    
>elephant and it might die of blood loss in a few hours, but you need    
>a very powerful weapon or a very high volume of fire to bring it down    
>quick.

>  The Elephant rule: (Perhaps it should be renamed the 'Jurassic Park    
>rule':)

>  If the damage points absorbed by an being with just one hit  
location   >is more than the damage value (ie # of dice after armour)  
times N   >then divide the  excess by five. -1 is counted as equal to  
1 for the   >purpose of this rule.   N is dependent on the system, and  
should be    >equal to the NPC hit capacity (aka 20 in T2k2 and 40 in  
TTNE).

>   Example: T2k2: The first 6 bullets that hit the Elephant will    
>inflict  6 * 3.5 = 21 damage points. 1 * 20 = 20, so everything above    
>20 should be divided by 5, so they really inflicted 20.2 damage    
>points. Getting the elephant to 80 points would take 85 more rounds,    
>and it will be quite pissed  the whole time.   So if you want to take    
>down an elephant, use an aimed shot from an elephant gun, and not    
>bozos with uzis.

>- -bertil- - --  "Desert Eagle! Desert Eagle! ... Minimi! Minimi! ...    
>Light 50! Light 50! ...   HEAP! HEAP! ... Run away! Run away!" PC's    
>encountering an animated statue   in a Dark Con combat that used the    
>Elephant rule.



Interesting idea, I was thinking of the pen. of an Elephant you're not    
going to penetrate an elephant very well with Mr. 9mm auto pistol

sorry, just not likely the 600 Nitro express was designed to get it's

attention and knock it down with sheer impact. In fact there is a law    
in big game hunting countries ( if there are any left :-)) that you    
cannot hunt the big stuff with any rifle smaller than .40 calibre.

too many hunters with their .270's got killed because there was not    
knock down with it. Just another bit of trivia from -- jim --

 

>Chris Bray) Subject: Re: TML nightly: Esther Williams Date: Thu, 24    
>Jun 93 11:25:33 EST

>Although I don't know what happened to the _real_ Esther Williams it    
>is my unfortunate duty to tell this list that the hologram is now a    
>trophy onboard a Vampire ship, somewhere outside the Regency.

>Now that is the start for an adventure.

> |-|()()|<	: cs576112@lux.latrobe.edu.au 



Hoo boy is it ever I think I could use this ;-) I can see it now...

"Well people your mission is to retrieve a missing object"

"What kind of object sir?"

"A holo of Esther Williams."

"Oh, is it valuable?"

"Only to the fleet."

"Oh good this can't be to hard"

( off stage laughter is heard! )



More on coffee one of my players bought 20 coffee trees when she    
encountered a planet that had them in Gushemege. She nursed them    
back to Spinward and got in touch with an agricultural collective that    
she knew to plant and harvest them. So by about 1122 "Regina dark" is    
a popular coffee. and she is now moderately rich although she doesn't    
seem to realize that. She still refuses to go to a store for clothes    
if she can make them herself!

Some players like to do some investment and trading if it is a side    
line they have a chance to make a profit and this adds interest to the    
character as well as giving me another hook... ( he he he ... ;-) )

Most of the group have a very small ability with combat therefor they    
tend to avoid it as much as possible. They are more in the lets sneak    
in and aquire it than the slam open the door guns blazing types.

and everyone is very into the characterization and developing the    
personality of their character. Some time I'll have to tell the story    
of Dr. Trank and how he came about his name...


Well I guess I should shutup now I'm trying to keep the posts short

:-) honest, really I am... honest... :-)


- -- jim --


- -- 
Remember: no matter where you go...
There you are...
B. Banzi

James M. Kelleher
kelleher@holonet.net


------------------------------

Bundle: 478
Archive-Message-Number: 5720
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 06:57:28 EDT
From: R. Allen Wilkinson x3383 <urt@magi.ncsl.nist.gov>
Subject: New player needs help

Hi,

I am a new traveller player.  I have read the complete section of
TNE on character generation.  I tried to generate a character the 
other day and got quite confused.  Could someone post an example
character with all the details?  I tried using the worksheet to help
in generation but still had problems.  Maybe its just me :)

Thanks in advance,

Lord Urt
urt@magi.ncsl.nist.gov

P.S. Could someone also review the MegaTraveller Computer games for
me.  Thanks again.

------------------------------

Bundle: 478
Archive-Message-Number: 5721
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 93 14:28:49 PDT
From: James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
Subject: Fusion Guns and Errata

From the just-posted (to GEnie) errata files for the TNE rulebook:
 
 The "personal combat" penetration ratings for all Plasma guns is
1-2-10.  That for Fusion guns is 1/2-1-4.
 
 The Industrial atmosphere range 2-4 is indeed a typo, as noted.
It should be 2-,4,7,9.
 
 The Laser Rifle-9 has a penetration of nil/3-nil (for the two
modes of fire), and the Laser Rifle-13 has a penetration of 3
(it does _not_ fall with distance).
 
 The currently available errata is described as "interim", so
I hesitate to post it all just yet, especially considering the
huge errata/opinion files posted earlier this week.  Starship
Errata will be published in Brilliant Lances.  The printing
location of the rest of it has not (so far as I know) been
decided.  Loren will probably let the TML know when he gets
back from summer Convention season.



James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>

There was a young lady named Bright,
Whose speed was much faster, much faster than Light.
She departed one day in a relative way,
And returned on the previous Night.
   --Albert & the Heart of Gold

------------------------------

Bundle: 478
Archive-Message-Number: 5722
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Space combats...
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1993 21:42:27 +0200 (MET DST)

  So far five instances of space combat has occured, and four of them were
at least started in orbit (range zero) and three of them were finished in
orbit (range zero).
  The usual chain of events is that one side bushwack the second near a natural
gathering-point. One case was over a mainworld (start at 0 end at 0), one 
was close to a moon with a former naval base (start at 0 end at 1 with that
the players jump away), one occation was a sneak attack by a missile-carrying
mine, that used a far prox nuke at them 20 diameters from a gas giant. The
remaining two were really one long combat with a break in the middle over a 
moon with a military base.
 
  Observations:

  The evasion skill is probably too hard, and IMHO it should be possible to
use pilot (interface/grav) for it (perhaps enabled by ship tactics).

  Scout ships are *very* damage resistant (except for their antennas:) because
many low-power hits are absorbed by the antennas, and those that doesn't hit 
the antennas tend to hit the hold.

  The hold hits can incapacitate when the fuel runs out, so it *is* fruitful
to attack ships to sieze them, and it *is* likely that a combat will end in
a boarding action.

  [The most likely outcome is IMHO that the side that feels inferior jumps if it
is capable. If it is incapable, it is possible that the battle ends when one
side hits bingo fuel. This could possibly leave one ship cartweeling off into
nothing and the other limping home at 0.5G-Hour. Otherwise boarding will occur
now. The least likely outcome is an explosion, but since the fuel explosions
are unlikely to destroy the ship totally, boarding will commence here too.
  A fight with nukes on the other hand, can lead to the total destruction of
one or both sides.]
 
  All KE weapons are of limited usefulnes at short ranges due to their 
low final speed.

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Bundle: 478
Archive-Message-Number: 5723
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Minor Races List
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 00:15:29 +0200 (MET DST)

> has anyone on the net put together a list or index of all the detailed
> (or even mentioned) minor races?

  Yes, someone on the TML did that a year(*) ago. I remember it because it
sparked a debate on wether the Prt' were canonical or not:)

  (I've xposted this to the TML)

  So, who did it and did anyone save it?

> jbogan@ic.sunysb.edu

- -bertil-
(*) No, it was more. It was *before* the talk of TTNE and before DGP had closed
    down their MegaTraveller line I think.
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Bundle: 478
Archive-Message-Number: 5724
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 12:07:55 BST
Subject: Re: Minor races list
From: Alan Huscroft <asshuscr@reading.ac.uk>

> From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
>  
> > has anyone on the net put together a list or index of all the detailed
> > (or even mentioned) minor races?
>  
>   Yes, someone on the TML did that a year(*) ago. I remember it because it
> sparked a debate on wether the Prt' were canonical or not:)
>  
>   (I've xposted this to the TML)
>  
>   So, who did it and did anyone save it?
>  
> > jbogan@ic.sunysb.edu
>  
> - -bertil-
> (*) No, it was more. It was *before* the talk of TTNE and before DGP had 
>  closed down their MegaTraveller line I think.

I'm the one who posted a list of minor races to the TML.  Believe it or
not, that was *three* years ago now.  Gads, where does the time go?

There was some debate at the time about the content of the list, especially
about the fact that I included the races from the Paranoia Press supplements.
These sources were revealed to be no longer canonical.

Since then, I'm afraid I haven't done any work at all in keeping up the list, 
so I'm not sure how much use it would be now.  If anyone really wants a copy 
then let me know -- I think I've still got it stored away on a floppy disk 
somewhere.  But I'm hoping that somebody else may have a more up-to-date 
version.  Anyone?

- --
Alan Huscroft     asshuscr@reading.ac.uk

------------------------------

Bundle: 478
Archive-Message-Number: 5725
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 15:09:41 -0400
From: eclipse@world.std.com (Mark Urbin)
Subject: more TNE errata fodder

 
More T:TNE errata...
 
Page 37 - Character starting cash.  Table goes from Early Steller to
	Advanced steller.  No average stellar and no place in the rule book
	with advanced steller.  Suggested fix: replace `advanced' with
          `average'.
 
Page 335- No game mechanics for Metabolic drugs.
 
page 353- what's the volume for plasma/fusion weapon backpacks?
 
page 353- Why do the clips weigh so much more than the weapons
	themselves?
 
page 346- Navigational Satellite. No data (vol, wgt, price) given for
	the  mentioned `ground tracking unit'.
 
General question:  Why does the penatration for the Gauss Rifle suck
	so bad (1-Nil)?  Given the Classic/Mega Trav descriptions of the
	round, one would think it stood a chance against Combat Armor.  Now
	it stops it cold and a CES (Combat Environment Suit) stops at
	at 140 meters.
 
 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Urbin -- eclipse@world.std.com -- These opinions are mine.
It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot 
on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 478
Archive-Message-Number: 5726
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 16:08:14 -0500
From: bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu (Steve Bonneville)
Subject: NEW ALIEN RACES LIST


Is this something like you're looking for?  I've had this lying around here
since I put it together some time ago.

****************************************************************************

THE NEW ALIEN LIST (revised 4 July 1993)

Recompilation, reformatting, and extensions based on a list posted by Wilson 
Liaw to the TML and corrected by Alan Huscroft in June 1990.  This list 
DOES NOT contain all entries from that list, but adds quite a few.  The 
original list is archived and available for ftp in the file "bun108" at 
"sunbane.enrgr.uwo.ca", and includes sources for some of the information in 
abbreviated form.

Aliens in this list are:

   * Listed by name and "Planet/Subsector (Sector Hex)".  Unknown notations
     mean information unknown in the context of the game -- uncertain
     notations simply mean _I_ don't know.
   * Divided into the traditional "Major" and "Minor, and also "Uplifted"
   * Not categorized by information source.  Besides cluttering the list
     and taking too long to compile, many originate from a one or two line
     reference in a sidebar or caption.
   * "Canonical" materials, unless otherwise noted, are those published
     by GDW, DGP, or FASA.  
 
This list is known to be incomplete.  Only aliens that I could check
information on are here.  Additions are welcome -- do whatever you want
to this thing.

*******************************************************************************

MAJOR RACES:
Droyne        Eskayloyt [unknown location...may be destroyed]
Hivers        Guaran/Guaran (Ricenden 0827)
Humans*       Terra/Sol (Solomani Rim 1827) or:
     Solomani     Terra/Sol (Solomani Rim 1827)
     Vilani       Vland/Vland (Vland 1717)
     Zhodani      Zhodane/Gaval (Zhdant 2719)
K'kree        Kirur/Thirty (Ruupiin 1315)
Vargr         Lair/Grnrouf (Provence 2402) or Terra/Sol (Sol. Rim 1827)
Aslan **      Kuzyu/Kilrai' (Dark Nebula 1919)

MINOR RACES:
Humans*      Terra/Sol (Solomani Rim 1827) or:
       Answerin     Answerin/Parsi (Vland 0431)
       Cafadans     Cafad/Sashrakusha (Corridor 3135)
       Cassilldan   [uncertain]
       Darrians     Darrian/Darrian (Spinward Marches 0627)
       Dynchia      Melantris/Melantris  [Leonidae?]
       Floriani     Floria/Yggdrasil (Trojan Reach 0213)
            [Barnai & Feskals (separate symbiotic dimorphic species)]
       Geonee       Shiwonee/Shiwonee (Massilia 1430)
       Halkans      Halka/Menorial (Trojan Reach 0510)
       Lamura Teg   Cikuek/Pendiash Ginshar (Hinterworlds 2907)
       Loeskalth    [uncertain Gushemege location]
       Murrissi     [uncertain coreward Hierate location]
       Suerrat      Ilelish/[uncertain]  (Ilelish 2907)
       Tapazmal     Dlaekan/Moiban (Reft 3134)
       Yileans      Gashikan/Gashilean (Gashikan 2732)
       [uncertain]  Thaggesh/Anakod (Vland 2530)
     HUMAN GENEERED:
       Jonkeereen   Jonkeer/Vincennes (Deneb 1324)
       [uncertain]  Nexine/Mora (Spinward Marches 3030)
     EXTINCT:
       Khulans      Khula/Vland (Vland 1919)
Ael Yael      Jaeyelya/[uncertain] (Gushemege 0437)
Ahetaowa      Ahetaowa/Ihearu (Ealiyasiyw 2604)
Akeed         Akeen/Lowton (Gateway 2708)
Aslan **      Kusyu/Kilrai' (Dark Nebula 1919)  [by actual facts]
Brinn         Kateri/Sinta (Corridor 2238)
Chips ***     Cymbeline/Arcturus (Solomani Rim 2527)
Chirpers      [Unknown]...Eskayloyt or various scattered worlds
Droashav      [Unknown]...now Trevannic/Castra (Gateway 2219)
Dishaan       Provalan/Wolf (Zarushagar 2325)
Ebokin        Yebab/Aramis (Spinward Marches 3002)
Eslyat ****   Elliador/Trelyn (Vanguard Reaches)  [uncertain -- DGP moved]
Faar          Alphaaric/Beckann (Gateway 1133)
Gogs          Mirayn/Jungleblut (Far Frontiers 2134)
Githiaskio    Githiaski/Dartho  (Antares 2406)
Gl'lu         Kubishush/Inar (Deneb 0917)
Gniivi        (Leonidae) [uncertain]
Gurvin        Ofilaq/[uncertain]  (Folgore)
Hhkar         Ssrar [unknown location]...now Skkyhrk/Hikaru (Amdukan 2213) 
Huosua        Iraisafeie/Tohai (Ealiyasiyw 1527)
Ithklur       Tryylin/[uncertain]  (Extolian)
Jenda         (Leonidae) [uncertain]
Jgd-ll-jagd   Jagd/[uncertain]  (Lishun 2307?)
Khethss       Giranima [uncertain]
Kolzar        Wimorel/Anakod (Vland 3129)
Lamura Gav    Cikuek/Pendiash Ginshar (Hinterworlds 2907)
Larianz       Byret/Mora  (Spinward Marches 2523)
Lasat         Zurr/[uncertain] (Lishun 1205?)
Llellewyloly  Junidy/Aramis (Spinward Marches 3202)
Minlad        Kaiid/Shuna (Lishun 0621)
Murians ****  [uncertain Vanguard Reaches -- moved by DGP]
Newts         Marhaban/Lentuli  (Empty Quarter 0426)
Ojeshodu      Neghu Oug/The Narrows (Corridor 2804)
Ormine        Akhlare/Akhlare (Dark Nebula 1313)
Orpheides     Orphee/New Islands (Reft 1429)
Salika        Garden/Alone (Reft 0435)
Shi'awei      Chaosheo/Star Lane (Deneb 0130)
Stalkers      Daniss/Bruia (Hinterworlds 1329)
Tahavi        Tahaver/Vland (Vland 2017)
Thorellians   Thorell/Nicosia (Old Expanses 0231)
Vegans        Muan Gwi/Vega (Solomani Rim 1717)
Virushi       Virshash/Urlaqquash  (Reaver's Deep 2724)
Xapoqi        Xapoqoz/Sashrakusha (Corridor 3131)
Za'tachk      Loza'tch/[uncertain]  (Wrenton)

THE UPLIFTED (20+ by Solomani):

First planet listed is world base species originated from.  Second planet
listed, if any, is planet closest associated with the uplifted subspecies.

Chips ***     Cymbeline/Arcturus (Solomani Rim 2527)   Solomani (sort of)
Dolphins      Terra/Sol (Solomani Rim 1827)            Solomani
   ["Bottlenose dolphins" -- _Tursiops truncatus galactus_]
   ["Whiteside dolphins"  -- _Lagenorhyncus obliquidens galactus_]
Gibbons       Terra/Sol (Solomani Rim 1827)            Solomani
   [Simian Project -- _Hylobates ? ?_]
Miniphants #  Terra/Sol (Solomani Rim 1827)            Solomani
   [_Microelphas_ var.]
Orangs        Terra/Sol (Solomani Rim 1827)            Solomani
   [Simian Project -- _Pongo pygmaeus ?_]
Orca          Terra/Sol (Solomani Rim 1827)            Solomani
              Sufren/Sufren (Diaspora 2004)
   [_Orcinus orca sapiens_]
Vargr         Terra/Sol (Solomani Rim 1827)            Ancients (Droyne)
              Lair/Grnrouf (Provence 2402) 


NOTES:

* Humans are listed on both the major and minor race lists due to the
multitude of "native" human worlds caused by the Ancient seeding project
ca. -300,000 imperial.  According to the books, there are 3 known major
human races, and 46 known living minor human races.  Currently, I have the
names and/or locations of some 14 living minor races, counting the Floriani 
twice, and not including the Loeskalth, who are believed extinct or 
assimilated by the Vilani but who survive (_Fate of the Sky Raiders_; FASA).  
   Some Azhanti High Lightning cruisers seem to incorporate names of Ancient-
displaced human races.  Some possible unverified names for human minor races
extrapolated from AHL cruiser names:  Azhanti, Sylean, Fiorin, Acheron,  
Ilurian, Luriani.
   This situation is further complicated by Solomani and Imperial genetic 
experiments which have resulted in additional races.

** The Aslan are listed on both the major and minor race lists due to the
recent discovery that they developed hyperdrive from Solomani artifacts, 
namely the starship TRS _Pathfinder_.  Despite this, they have been included
as a major race for some 3000 years, and are one of the most vital aliens in
Known Space, thus justifying their continued listing as a major race.  No
flames about "major/minor" race designation racism please!

*** The Chips are listed on both the minor and uplifted race lists due to
their accidental and unpredictable evolution of intelligence in response to 
their exposure to advanced silicon materials and circuits in a crashed 
Terran vessel during the 7th Interstellar War.  They may currently be 
considered either (1) extinct after the nuclear bombardment of their 
homeworld in 1127 (assuming none were off-world) or (2) still extant as
the Virus.

**** The Eslyat and the Murians were originally from Paranoia Press's _The 
Beyond_ and _Vanguard Reaches_ sector products, and therefore are no longer 
strictly "canonical" Traveller aliens.  However, DGP's _Solomani & Aslan_
still shows governmental units labeled with their names in that area, albeit
differently placed than in the PP products.  So the question is open....

# Miniphants might not quite qualify as sentient.  The issue of JTAS they 
appeared in (#16) stated that they had an intelligence of 2-4, and they do
seem to fit the group above, so they got put there.

***************************************************************************

Hope that helps!

- --Steve Bonneville


- --------------------------------------------------------------------
INTERNET: bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu
 "Back in the good old days of gaming, there were no rules --
  only a referee with a gun and a chair."    -- David L. Arneson
- --------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Bundle: 478
Archive-Message-Number: 5727
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 00:37:14 EDT
From: wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: Reminder: Classic Traveller "Wake"!


This is reminder for everyone in the area.  The Classic Traveller wake is
coming up in about 2 weeks!  If you will be coming to this, e-mail, write,
or call me (both for directions and so I know you will be coming).  Feel
free to forward this message to the appropriate GEnie forum.


The Classic Traveller "Wake"!


Take some time out of your summer to come and meet other Traveller
players, talk about the "Good Ol Days" of the Classic Imperium, reflect
on the Rebellion, and speculate about the New Era.

When : 198 -2528 (Imperial)  7-17-1993 (Solomani)
       Saturday, July 17th 1993; 6:00pm Local Time

Where: Terra (Sol Gamma) Solomani Rim 1827
       Rockville, Maryland


Please RSVP me (by e-mail, USnail, or phone) for detailed directions and
any special information you might need. 


Bring your favorite party food or drink!  While I will have basic party
supplies, I suggest that you eat dinner first (or a bunch of us can
always do the Famous Role-Playing Standby: order out for pizza).


Guy Garnett

(301) 871-5104 (home) 7-10pm local time weekdays, 9am-11pm weekends

wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu

14007 Eagle Court
Rockville, MD 20853



wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                 Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                         in the Far Future


------------------------------

Bundle: 478
Archive-Message-Number: 5728
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Traveller Sports
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 16:15:50 +0200 (MET DST)

  (Sorry if this has been suggested)

  Gas giant orienteering:

  You take a space suit, a personal thruster pack, a grav belt, lots of bottles
of LOX, and a hand computer (containing the map and some orbital mechanics
programs), and hold a orienteering contest where the different stations are
on different moons around a gas giant.
  A personal reentry kit can be advisable too, and a emergency beacon.
  I imagine that the difficulties would be in two areas, firstly to navigate 
between the moons using a hand computer but otherwise on fully manual: In
orbital mechanics you don't go forward if you thrust forward, instead you
go upward and slow your movement relative those in lower orbits:)
  Secondly to find the stations on the moons, the gravbelt won't have enough
fuel to enable you to go looking for it, so you have to be right on in the
first descent.

  Asteroid belt orienteering is another option if the radiation levels around 
gas giants are too high.

- -bertil-
- -- 
"Does that mean that the grav-belts have little propellers on them now, and if
 so, does Astrid Lindgren know about that 'Karlsson on the roof' has become
 a viable Traveller character?"

------------------------------

Bundle: 478
Archive-Message-Number: 5729
From: John H Bogan <jbogan@libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu>
Subject: Minor races already in Reavers Deep (fwd)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 18:47:07 EDT

Steve, many thanks for the Races list. However, You're missing some from
Reaver's Deep. BTW, I'm Ccing this to the TML nightly.

I got these from TD#16, and the supplements from Gamelords,Ltd. that
the Keith bros. wrote, so it's considered canonnical.

> Minor races in Reaver's Deep from previous cannon material:
[addenda to Steve Bonneville's list]



> the Ilthara (human minor)  (Drexilthar/Drexilthar) (Reavers Deep 1826)

> the J'aadje (Gaajpadje/Ea) (REavers Deep 1124)
> the Saie    (extinct?) ([uncertain]/Caledon?) (Reavers Deep ????)
> the Languljigee (Lajanjigal/Drexilthar) (Reavers Deep 1721)
> the H'Oskhikhil (Storm/Riftdeep) (Reavers Deep 1404)

John H Bogan

jbogan@ic.sunysb.edu



------------------------------

Bundle: 478
Archive-Message-Number: 5730
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 22:29:05 -0700
From: dane@retzlaff.llnl.gov (nosnhoJ enaD)
Subject: MHD Turbines...


Okay, somebody more in the know than I needs to explain this to me:

An MHD Turbine, used in most of the Grav vehicles for power AND thrust,
seems to me to be the following device:  a torus of water, accelerated by
a magnetic field, which is then pushed through a turbine to generate
electricity.

This is dumb.  It means we have electricity to begin with, but we want to
push it through this other device before we use it...Also, we don't get
any thrust from this, as far as I can see....

Option 2:  We're burning Hydrogen as a reactant and using the heat/whatever
to power a turbine, which pushes the water from which electricity is
extracted with an MHD setup.

This is also dumb.  Why not just pull the power off the turbine directly?
Plus, the Hydrogen needs a reactant which we also need to lug along, or it
won't work in anything but atmospheres with a reactant in suitable quantities.

Option 3:  The Hydrogen Exhaust (Water, if we're using Oxygen as our
reactant) is accelerated (?) by an MHD (or has power pulled off it, which
means it's *deccelerated*) and then pushed through a turbine.

This is also stupid.  Why use both for generating electricity?  At TL 8,
the turbine is more effecient than the MHD, although we could probably
fudge this with "hi-tech" superconductors, or whatever :)

Option 4:  We've got a turbine precompressing the atmosphere before pushing
it through the MHD (a la modern turbo-jets) <assuming that we're using the
atmosphere as the reactant...if not, no precompressing is necessary>.

This is dumb, 'cause it won't fly in a vacuum.  And really, what's the use
of a grav vehicle that can't be used in a vacuum (or any non-compatible 
atmosphere, really).

So, basically, I can see no rationale for something called an MHD turbine
as either a good powerplant or a source of thrust.  Am I wrong?

Dane

traveller@llnl.gov
djohnson@willamette.edu
TNS Stringer ------------ Terra/Solomani Rim (1827 G867975-8)
"I'm not a real Scientist, but I play one in an RPG."

------------------------------

Bundle: 478
Archive-Message-Number: 5731
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 22:30:17 -0700
From: dane@retzlaff.llnl.gov (nosnhoJ enaD)
Subject: Wake...


Maryland, eh?  Anybody stuck out here on the West Coast interested in
having one of these, too?

Dane

traveller@llnl.gov
djohnson@willamette.edu
TNS Stringer ------------ Terra/Solomani Rim (1827 G867975-8)
"I'm not a real Scientist, but I play one in an RPG."

------------------------------

Bundle: 478
Archive-Message-Number: 5732
Subject: Re: Wake
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 93 10:48:13 -0700
From: gwh@lurnix.COM


Wildstar, I'm afraid I won't be able to make it to Maryland.
Anyone in the San Fransisco Bay Area is welcome to contact
me about doing a simultaneous Wake here, though 8-)

- -george

"I shot WHO?!?!?!?!??" - A. Dulinor



------------------------------

Bundle: 478
Archive-Message-Number: 5733
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: MHD
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 04:52:59 +0200 (MET DST)

> From: dane@retzlaff.llnl.gov (nosnhoJ enaD)
> Subject: MHD Turbines...
 
> Okay, somebody more in the know than I needs to explain this to me:

  I don't know exactly but I suspect that it works this way:

  The MHD turbine is a setup that extracts electrical energy directly out of
(hot) gas rushing through it, thereby reducing its speed (and lowering the 
temperature possibly).
  The total efficiency of it is higher than for a gas turbine, but the
gas will not have speed zero when it exits so this is where the thrust
comes from.

  If it is anything like a better version of a gas turbine it can drink 
almost anything, from hydrogen to alcohol to gasoline to lamp oil to 
coal dust in water slurry and so on.

> This is dumb, 'cause it won't fly in a vacuum.

  Correct, it will only fly in atmospheres 4-9, (2-9 with an intake compressor
like the one on the GUESS air/raft) and there might be trouble with certain
taints too.

  The only thing except fusion, solar power and batteries that will be usable
in vacuum is fuel cells, and they need nine times the listed (MegaT) fuel
to account for oxygen as well as hydrogen.

> And really, what's the use
> of a grav vehicle that can't be used in a vacuum (or any non-compatible 
> atmosphere, really).

  There is the problem of thrust nowadays. Grav won't give thrust, and various
fan arrangements (that are much better than reaction mass propulsion in
atmospheres) are unusable in vacuum. Reaction mass on the other hand increases
the fuel consumption pretty badly but allows higher speeds.

  The best thing for vacuum is a small craft with G-Hours etc.

  (This is taken from 'Mad Geos TNE Conversions' and some reverse engineering
of my own)
   
> Dane

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Bundle: 478
Archive-Message-Number: 5734
From: helm@ymir.ucdavis.edu (Seriously Tweaked)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 21:48:16 PDT
Subject: west coast wake


well, I'm game too for a west coast wake.  If someone wants
to volunteer a place (mine's too small), I'll certainly drive
down to the Bay from Davis to attend (so long as it fits into
my schedule)  I know there's a number of trav players around
the Bay.  How about it, folks?  Jim?  James?  Jeff?

Catie
helm@geology.ucdavis.edu


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #479: Msgs 5735-5752 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed Jul 14 22:00:02 EDT 1993
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #479: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 479  5735 08-Jul-1993 l.wiseman1@geni  Errata <<  Combat starts on page 263, n
 479  5736 08-Jul-1993 Stewart Eyres    Spoiler! << Steve Bonneville
 479  5737 08-Jul-1993 Stewart Eyres    Alien Race << One minor race overlooked
 479  5738 08-Jul-1993 R. Allen Wilkin  Computer Games << Hello,
 479  5739 08-Jul-1993 gwh@lurnix.COM   Re: MHD Turbines << From: dane@retzlaff
 479  5740 08-Jul-1993 c_hamilton%W036  JTAS for sale << One of my friends has 
 479  5741 08-Jul-1993 nosnhoJ enaD     MHD Turbines... << Geez, I guess I must
 479  5742 08-Jul-1993 Steve Gibbons    High Guard, anyone remember the good ol
 479  5743 08-Jul-1993                  Re: TML nightly: Msgs 5730-5732 V58#2 <
 479  5744 09-Jul-1993 Steve Bonnevill  Re: Alien Races List << Thanks to every
 479  5745 09-Jul-1993 Steve Gibbons    Minor errata on the Ape << For some rea
 479  5746 09-Jul-1993 Bertil Jonell    Re: Alien Races << > From: bonnevil@mer
 479  5747 09-Jul-1993 nosnhoJ enaD     MHD Turbines, the last word :) <Honest>
 479  5748 10-Jul-1993 "Lord Krieg"     TNE weapon design << Loren Wiseman's cl
 479  5749 12-Jul-1993 kirsch@rhea.inf  Some problems... << Hello fellow Travel
 479  5750 12-Jul-1993 John H Bogan     Gauss guns, problems <<   The recent ta
 479  5751 12-Jul-1993 Anthony Neal     Traveller Universe << Hello:
 479  5752 13-Jul-1993 "Ed Sharpe"      Some problems << >I have mastered two T

------------------------------

Bundle: 479
Archive-Message-Number: 5735
From: l.wiseman1@genie.geis.com
Date: Thu,  8 Jul 93 04:44:00 BST
Subject: Errata

 Combat starts on page 263, not 363.
 Page 38
     Stellar Regions DMs Table
     Under "Wilds," wear value reference should be 10, not 8.
 Page 186
     4 World Size
     Should be 2D6@2
     5 Atmosphere
     Should be 2D6@7 + World Size
     6 Hydrographics
     Should be 2D@7 + World Size
     8 Government
     Should be 2D@7 + Population
     9 Law Level
     Should be 2D@7 + Government
 Page 187
     12 Trade Classification
     Atmosphere for Industrial class should be "2@, 4, 7, 9"
 Page 191
     A number of players have expressed concern that there
 are now two parallel sets of government type codes, one for
 the Wilds, and one for use elsewhere, as this will cause
 confusion when reading UWPs. Players should think of the
 government digit not as a firm definition in the same man-
 ner as a size or hydrographics code. Rather, it is a
 descriptive tool to help create an effective roleplaying
 atmosphere. Unlike all other digits of the UWP which are
 quantifiable, government type is highly descriptive in na-
 ture and is often a judgement call. For example, is a board
 of directors a Participating Democracy, a
 Company/Corporation, or a Self-Perpetuating Oligarchy?
      Future Traveller: The New Era products will expand and
 further detail world governmental descriptions. The basic
 book was not able to contain such a system for reasons of
 space, and because the game had to allow players to gener-
 ate pre-Collapse Imperial worlds, the classic Traveller
 method of government generation was retained as an interim
 system. In providing the Wilds government types, we aimed
 to increase the diversity of world types that can be
 visited, and further fuel players' imaginations. Like real
 governments, UWP government digits can change unpredict-
 ably, and exist to help referees create interesting cam-
 paigns, rather than existing as ends in themselves.
 
 Page 196
      Travel Movement Table
      Some of the Travel Moves are off. The correct values
 should be:
            Heavy cargo truck 85/10
            Ground car   260/50
            Hovercraft   240/195
            Tracked ATV  150/65
            Range truck  240/85
            Wheeled ATV  175/65
            Air raft (open)    1440/260
            G-Carrier    2880/260
            Enclosed air raft 2880/260
            Grav tank    2400/345
            Speeder      3360/390
            Grav Bike    720/85
 Page 199
  Effects of Fatigue
   For the fatigue effects on fire, it is simpler to think of
  the fatigue effects as +DMs used on a normal task die roll
  than as subtractions from the target number.
  Page 236
   5 Sourceworld Trade Classifications
   Atmosphere for Industrial class should be "2@, 4, 7, 9"
  Page 288
   Upon further testing, we have decided that the following
  wound effects provide more entertaining and dynamic play,
  and suggest that all players use these instead.
   Serious Wounds: the roll to avoid losing conciousness every
  turn in which the character attempts an activity becomes a
  Difficult roll against Constitution. Characters who have
  lost conciousness make a Formidable roll against their Con-
  stitution each turn to attempt to regain conciousness.
   Critical Wounds: The roll to regain conciousness is made
  each combat turn, and is a D100 (percentile) roll against
  the Constitution attribute.
  Page 289
   Add the following new rule for the use of the personal
  medical kit, immediately before the "Stabilizing Critical
  Wounds" section.
   Use of a personal medical kit (page 334) allows a character
  with neither Medical skill nor a doctor's medical kit to
  avoid the unskilled penalty when attempting a first aid task
  (thus it is a Formidable task using the character's EDU
  attribute). One such use uses up the medical kit.
  Page 292
   Under Powerboats, the reference to "size one" should read
  "Micro or SubMicro."
  Page 301
   Fire: The task to extinguish a fire should be Difficult
  versus CON, not Formidable.
  Page 302
   In the example of the collision between the car and truck,
  the following corrections should be made: "the car is hit
  with a value of (95x2)M-v10, or 19," "which means that (19@1=)
  18 is referenced," and "As a result, (9@1=) 8 points are
  takento the Vehicle Damage Results Table." In the tandem
  bicycle example, the check versus Agility should be Average,
  not Difficult.
  Page 315
   In the second-to-last paragraph, delete the reference to
  the limit on maximum simultaneous sensor locks.
  Page 325
   Delete Hit Location table in lower left-hand corner of
  page, as it is redundant. Use Ship Facing tables at upper
  right for hit location.
   On Ship Facing/Beam Weapon Fire table, "Fore Quarter" line
  should read: "reroll results of 16 through 20."
  Page 340
   Communication Equipment
   The in-text range of 500 km for both the Communicator,
  Laser, and Communicator, Video, should be changed to 300 km,
  and all references to the term "regional range" should be
  deleted.
  Page 348
   Laser Turret Table
   the TL 14 150 Mj laser turret should have an Extreme range
  listing of "16:1/10-30."
  Page 351
   Slug Rifles and Carbines
   The double-barrel rifle mentioned in the note is 12mm, not
  13, and its magazine listing in the table should be 2i.
  Page 354
   Small Arms
   Several people have if the recoil figures for the 4mm Gauss
  Pistol-13 are in error. They are not. Because Traveller: The
  New Era uses a more realistic system (developed for
  Twilight: 2000) for rating firearms based on weapon weight,
  round weight, and muzzle velocity, than Traveller did,
  weapons that were created for Traveller do not always work
  well when using their original Traveller specifications. The
  gauss pistol listed here is such an example of a weapon
  rated into Traveller: The New Era using its original
  Traveller specifications. The recoil is high because it is
  specified as being such a light weapon for its high muzzle
  velocity. We have theorized that this is a light, easily
  concealable, hold-out weapon that is hard to control.
  Another gauss pistol design, intended to be more control-
  lable in combat, is as follows.
                            ----- Weight --------   -----   Price -----
 Caliber         TL Ammo    Empty  Lded  Ammo       Mag  Wpn  Ammo
 4mm Gauss Auto  13 4mm Gs  0.8    1.02 .014515     600   1.3/20
                                                    --- Recoil ---
  Weapon              RoF   Dam   Pen   Blk   Mag   SS   Brst   Rng
  4mm Gauss Cbt Auto  3     1     1-Nil 1     15    3     5     30
  Page 355
   Lasers
   The Laser Rifle-9 (8cm) should have a Pen of Nil/3-Nil.
   The Laser Rifle-13 (4cm) should have a Pen of 3. This
  Penetration does not attenuate with distance.
   High Energy Weapons
   The numbers listed under "Pen" are the weapons' Penetration
  Values for use against vehicles, see page 297. The penetra-
  tion ratings for use against personnel according to the
  rules on page 285 were inadvertently omitted. These ratings
  are 1-2-10 for all plasma guns and 1/2-1-4 for all fusion
  guns.
   Correct range for Fusion Rifle-14 is 50, and Fusion Rifle-
  15 is 70.
  Pages 360-365
       Vehicle Data
       Many of the vehicles have no listed configuration or an
  incomplete configuration. In addition, Travel Moves  and
  grav vehicle Combat Moves need to be corrected. Their cor-
  rect configurations and Moves are as follows. The notation
  Unarmored refers to the Unarmored Vehicles rule on page 301,
  and the references to turrets refer to the Hit Location rule
  on page 297. Any Travel or Combat moves that are not listed
  do not need correction.
       Note that travel moves for ground vehicles assume that
  the vehicle is moving at a rate of 1.5 times its safe speed
  for a period of four hours. This means that a ground vehicle
  could go farther than this during a four-hour period. The
  absolute upper limit is twice the listed travel move, which
  translates to the vehicle's driver making constant For-
  midable driving rolls for a period of four hours.
       Travel moves for aircraft and grav vehicles are in the
  format high flight speed/NOE speed. For NOE speed, the
  Travel Move is 1.5 times the safe speed for four hours, just
  as for ground vehicles. Because high flight speed is an ab-
  solute speed at high altitude, the high flight Travel Move
  is four hours at this speed, with no need for
  driving/piloting checks (except in the case of bad weather,
  etc., at the referee's discretion).
       Heavy Cargo Truck: Travel Move: 85/10; Configuration:
  Vehicle (Unarmored)
  Ground Car: Travel Move: 260/50; Configuration: Vehicle
  (Unarmored)
       Hovercraft: Travel Move: 240/195; Configuration:
  Vehicle (no turret)
       Tracked ATV: Travel Move: 150/65; Configuration:
  Vehicle (no turret)
       Range Truck: Travel Move: 240/85; Configuration:
  Vehicle (Unarmored)
       Wheeled ATV: Travel Move: 175/65; Configuration:
  Vehicle (no turret)
       Air Raft: Travel Move: 1440/260; Combat Move: 50/6;
  Configuration: Vehicle (Unarmored)
       G-Carrier: Travel Move: 2880/260; Combat Move: 100/6;
  Configuration: Vehicle (Small Turret)
       Enclosed Air Raft: Travel Move: 2880/260; Combat Move:
  100/6; Configuration: Vehicle (no turret)
       Grav Tank: Travel Move: 2400/345; Combat Move: 83/8;
  Configuration: Vehicle (Turret)
       Speeder: Travel Move: 3360/390; Combat Move: 117/9;
  Configuration: Vehicle (no turret)
       Grav Bike: Travel Move: 720/85; Combat Move: 25/2; Con-
  figuration: Use "Firing at Riders" (page 277) and
  "Motorcycles" (page 301)
  Page 363
   G-Carrier
   20 Mj plasma crade gun Damage should be 16, and Penetration
  Values should be 16-8-1.
  Page 364
   Grav Tank
   120 Mj fusion cradle gun Range should be 600*.
  Pages 366-379
   Starships
   Starship errata will be corrected in Brilliant Lances:
  Traveller Starship Combat, and will become available at that
  time.

------------------------------

Bundle: 479
Archive-Message-Number: 5736
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 07:59:51 +0100 (BST)
From: Stewart Eyres <spe@jb.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Spoiler!

Steve Bonneville
		thanks for the alien list--I only wish you had been more
careful about possible spoilers re. Gateway! :-)  Let's just hope I can
get to my players first.  Any chance of a source list for some of these,
especially the Human minor races.

_____________________________________________________________________________
"Traveller Done Wrong 
	- Let's get the Fiction back into Science Fiction Roleplaying"

Stewart								N.R.A.L.
								Jodrell Bank
								Macclesfield
spe@jb.man.ac.uk						Cheshire
								SK11 9DL
____________________________________________________________________________



------------------------------

Bundle: 479
Archive-Message-Number: 5737
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 09:12:30 +0100 (BST)
From: Stewart Eyres <spe@jb.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Alien Race


One minor race overlooked by the recent list:

Crenduthaar of Ghatsokie/???/Deneb 0902

from MTJ3

_____________________________________________________________________________
"Traveller Done Wrong 
	- Let's get the Fiction back into Science Fiction Roleplaying"

Stewart								N.R.A.L.
								Jodrell Bank
								Macclesfield
spe@jb.man.ac.uk						Cheshire
								SK11 9DL
____________________________________________________________________________



------------------------------

Bundle: 479
Archive-Message-Number: 5738
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 15:08:50 EDT
From: R. Allen Wilkinson x3383 <urt@magi.ncsl.nist.gov>
Subject: Computer Games

Hello,

I am new to the "Traveller Family".  Could someone give me reviews on
the MegaTraveller Computer Games?  How do they compare to the RPG?
Are they worth getting at $20 for each (I and II)?  Could you direct
me to other Traveller related software (and review it)?  I, of course,
know about the archival sites and what they contain.

Please respond to me directly (not through the list).

urt@magi.ncsl.nist.gov

Thanks in advance,

Lord Urt

------------------------------

Bundle: 479
Archive-Message-Number: 5739
Subject: Re: MHD Turbines
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 93 11:32:01 -0700
From: gwh@lurnix.COM


From: dane@retzlaff.llnl.gov (nosnhoJ enaD)
Subject: MHD Turbines...
>Okay, somebody more in the know than I needs to explain this to me:
>
>An MHD Turbine, used in most of the Grav vehicles for power AND thrust,
>seems to me to be the following device:  a torus of water, accelerated by
>a magnetic field, which is then pushed through a turbine to generate
>electricity.

Err, no, that's a watercraft MHD drive.  Let me back off a bit and
explain from the theoretical side first...

MHD is merely the study of interactions between conductive fluids
(gases, plasma also) and electrical and magnetic fields.
The primary rule of MHD is that when a conductive fluid has
an electrical field passing through it in one direction,
and a magentic field perpendicular to that, it is accellerated
perpindicularly to _both_ of those fields... or, if a moving
conductive fluid is subjected to a magnetic or electrical
field it will establish the other field perpendicularly to
the existing one... 8-)

That's the basic stuff.  It gets more complex (I know physics
grad students who work in the field exclusively) and more painful
to work with (the typical reaction to someone describing
advanced MHD effects in a physics conference is that everyone
"smiles and nods" without understanding it at all ;-).

A MHD engine is one that takes a working fluid (gas, plasma...)
and subjects it to an accellerating field of perpendicular electric
and magnetic fields.  For a water vehicle, you use seawater (which
is highly conductive).  For space vehicles, you have to bring along
fuel of some sort and ionize it (the usual process is to have a
low powerion engine, say using xenon, feeding the MHD engine...)
and then runs it through the paired fields to accellerate it further.

An MHD _turbine_ does the opposite; instead of taking electrical
power and accellerating something, it takes something that's moving
and generates electrical power.  For example, the exhaust of a jet
engine is a hot, partially ionized, fast moving gas.  To generate
electricity from it, you can run the exhaust through a magnetic
field and put electrodes at the sides perpendicular to the magnetic
field... you get a current.

MHD turbines are exceptionally effecient ways of generating power,
but have the problem that they erode electrodes very quickly.
Work today is slowly proceeding on making them more effecient that
way, but it's slow going.  But you can make them today, if you're
willing to swap electrodes every few hours ;-)

- -george william herbert



------------------------------

Bundle: 479
Archive-Message-Number: 5740
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 93 17:17:42 EDT
From: c_hamilton%W036_NW@mwmgate1.mitre.org
Subject: JTAS for sale

One of my friends has the following JTAS for sale:

#14 - Laws and Lawbreakers
#18 - Travelling without Jumping
#24 - Religion in the 2000 Worlds

He's asking $4 each plus shipping.  Please contact him directly with
any offers.  Here's his address:

James Kittock       jek@cs.stanford.edu


------------------------------

Bundle: 479
Archive-Message-Number: 5741
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 19:59:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: nosnhoJ enaD <dane@retzlaff.llnl.gov>
Subject: MHD Turbines...

Geez, I guess I must have sounded even more clueless than I thought :) 
Believe it or not, I'm actually a grad student in physics (well, for the
time begin, anyway).  I haven't had much exposure to MHD stuff in general,
and I haven't seen/done the equations on power generation from something
like this.  My gut reaction was that if you're taking something like an 
ion engine accelerating (say) xenon and then stripping electricity off
with a magnetic field (ie, an MHD turbine) then you had electricity to
begin with (to power your linac in the ion engine) and you probably
wouldn't pull out more than you put in to begin with...However, from what
George says this may not be an accurate picture on my part...Anyway,
thanks for all the complete answers!

Dane

traveller@llnl.gov
djohnson@willamette.edu
TNS Stringer ------------ Terra/Solomani Rim (1827 G867975-8)
"I'm not a real Scientist, but I play one in an RPG."


------------------------------

Bundle: 479
Archive-Message-Number: 5742
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1993 22:32:28 -700
From: Steve Gibbons <steve@wyvern.sunquest.com>
Subject: High Guard, anyone remember the good old days?

                                     -Off-
                              ---Def---
FS-???? Gibbon     FS-0106D11-F00000-05000-0 MCr12.245	8 tons
  batteries bearing                   1			Crew=1
          batteries                   1			TL=15
Passengers=0. Low=0 Cargo=0 Fuel=0.49. EP=1.12. Agility=6. Marines=0

Date:		7/8/93
Name:		Gibbon
Class:		Ape
Tech:		15
Laid Down:
First Flight:

Ship Type:	FS	(Strike Fighter)
Tonnage:	 0	(8 Tons)
Configuration:	 1	(Needle)
J-Drive:	 0
M-Drive:	 6
P-Plant:	13
Computer:	 1
 Optic Backup?:	 No
Crew:		 1	(Pilot)

Hull Strength:	15
Sand:		 0
Meson Screen:	 0
Nuke Dampers:	 0
Force Field:	 0
Repulsors:	 0
Lasers:		 0
NRG Weapons:	 5
Particle Weapons:0
Meson Gun:	 0
Misiles:	 0
 Magazine?:	 No

Fighter Screen:	 0
Ships Vehicles:	 0
Ships Troops:	 0
Fuel Tankage:	 1.04
 Maximum Jumps	 0
 Unrefined Fuel? Yes
 Fuel Scoops?:	 Yes
Ship's Purpose:	 Kick butt

Hull:		 1		8.00 Tons	 120KCr/Ton		 960KCr
M-Drive:	 6	17%	1.36 Tons	 500KCr/Ton		 680KCr
P-Plant:	14	14%	1.12 Tons	3000KCr/Ton		3360KCr
Fuel:			??%	0.49 Tons
Armor:		15	16%	1.28 Tons	 300KCr+(1500KCr/Ton)	2220KCr
Capacitor	 9EP		0.25 Tons	1000KCr			1000KCr
Energy Points:	1.12
Agility:	 6 (.48 EP)

Computer:	1		1.00 Tons	2000KCr			2000KCr

Fusion Gun:	5		2.00 Tons	2000KCr			2000KCr

Pilot Couch:			0.50 Tons	  25KCr			  25KCr
				---------			       --------
                                8.00 Tons                              12245KCr

The Ape class fighter, while small in stature more than makes up for its
diminutive size with its blazing fusion gun, uncanny agility, and thick hide.
Much of it's 20% size reduction is due to the 1/4 ton capacitor that it leeches
engergy off of in combat situations.  The Ape is able to remain in combat for a
full two hours before its capacitor "runs dry," thereafter, the Ape may enter
combat every 4th turn or return to it's mother-ship for recharging.  Many
commanders are willing to endure this short duration in exchange for the 25%
increase in guns (and the comparative strength of the fusion gun) that can be
brought against the enemy compared to conventional 10 ton fighters.

Design notes:  As it stands, the only rules that were bent were the 1-ton
minimums on the fuel requirement.  This gives an effective long-term duration
of just over 13 days.  An additional 2 hours (maybe 2.5, it depends on how you
do your rounding...) for a mere 1MCR in capacitors and sacrificing 7 days of
long-term duration.

The TL 14 variety is the exact same configuration, except that the armor factor
drops to 14 with .08 tons added to fuel/whatever; and power-plant rating drops
to 7, with a proportionate increase in long-term duration.

The TL 13 variety is the same as the TL 15 variety except that both the armor
factor and the power-plant rating are reduced to 7, and the fusion-gun rating
is reduced to 4.

At TL 13-14, extra capacitors really begin to pay off...  (assuming that the
craft can survive that long in combat)

Below TL 13, this class of ship just isn't possible...

Oh yeah, the capacitor rules are on page 42 of my edition of High Guard   (c)
1980 under the heading "The Black Globe".  I think this is a logical extension
of those rules.

- --
Steve (SPG6)steve@wyvern.sunquest.com

------------------------------

Bundle: 479
Archive-Message-Number: 5743
Date: 	Thu, 8 Jul 1993 08:37:00 -0400
From: <PHB100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 5730-5732 V58#2

>TML nightly     Wed Jul  7 20:30:03 EDT 1993    Volume 58 : Issue 2
>
>
>Okay, somebody more in the know than I needs to explain this to me:

well, none of your options are correct.  This is MHD in a nutshell....

You have a turbine which burns fuel (any kind of fuel will work, some better
than others). The (very, very) hot exhaust is sent thru a straight pipe with
a coil wrapped around the outside.  Since the exhaust is also electrically
charged (a weak plasma) the moving charges in the pipe induce a current in the
coil.  This is what produces the power.  Since the exhaust is only slowed
down slightly from the power generation, it still produces thrust.

If you gear the turbine for power, you lose most, if not all, of the thrust.
If you go for straight thrust, you get very little power.  MHD trades off some
of the thrust for power.  Since you aren't mechanically coupling the exhaust
(via a power turbine), you get little mechanical losses, thus pretty good
efficiency.

caveat:  I am not a power engineer, but I am sure I have the general concepts
    correct.

PB
- ----------
Captain Sir Michael Talmoth,  UPP:  BA5A8B

"You see me now a veteran,
     Of a thousand psychic wars,
         I've been living on the edge so long,
             Where the winds of Limbo roar.
- -- BOC


------------------------------

Bundle: 479
Archive-Message-Number: 5744
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 01:46:52 -0500
From: bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu (Steve Bonneville)
Subject: Re: Alien Races List


Thanks to everyone for the interest in the list, and for the help with
some of the ones I missed.  (The annoying thing is, I should have caught
'em too, but I did most of this list before MTJ #3 and before I got some
old TD back issues...oh well.)

Since the list is culled from Traveller material I have access to, there
are some holes in the list.  For instance, I think there was a race in
_Safari Ship_, but they aren't on the list 'cuz I don't have a copy to
check on the details.  The same goes for back issues of the old magazines;
I don't have a lot of the old TDs, JTAS/Challenges, or any of the others.

(Speaking of which, what's the difference between the "old dolphins" from
 JTAS and the "new dolphins" from TD #13 (Terra)?  Ever since I heard
 they'd been redone, I've been curious, and I've never seen a copy of
 TD #13.)

Some people have asked if I'm thinking about reworking the list to put
references in.  I've thought about it, but it would be a pain to do.
I might put in source references anyway, but only if I happen to get
some spare time (not terribly likely in the immediate future).  I'll
probably update the list to reflect corrections, though.  If anyone
else wants to take a swing at it, be my guest!

- --Steve Bonneville
l

- --------------------------------------------------------------------
INTERNET: bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu
 "Back in the good old days of gaming, there were no rules --
  only a referee with a gun and a chair."    -- David L. Arneson
- --------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Bundle: 479
Archive-Message-Number: 5745
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1993 09:29:08 -700
From: Steve Gibbons <steve@wyvern.sunquest.com>
Subject: Minor errata on the Ape

For some reason, I was thinking of 30 minute combat turns.
That'll teach me to design at night...  The combat durations
for the ape should be adjusted accordingly.

- --
Steve (SPG6) steve@wyvern.sunquest.com

------------------------------

Bundle: 479
Archive-Message-Number: 5746
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: Alien Races
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 00:49:32 +0200 (MET DST)

> From: bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu (Steve Bonneville)
> Subject: NEW ALIEN RACES LIST
 
> This list 
> DOES NOT contain all entries from that list, but adds quite a few. 

  What were your criterias for exclusion?

>    Some Azhanti High Lightning cruisers seem to incorporate names of Ancient-
> displaced human races.  Some possible unverified names for human minor races
> extrapolated from AHL cruiser names:  Azhanti, Sylean, Fiorin, Acheron,  
					^^^^^^^
> Ilurian, Luriani.

  Unless that is a misspelling of Ashanti. You know, the Solomani ones:)

> - --Steve Bonneville

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."


------------------------------

Bundle: 479
Archive-Message-Number: 5747
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 21:24:12 -0700
From: dane@retzlaff.llnl.gov (nosnhoJ enaD)
Subject: MHD Turbines, the last word :) <Honest>


MHD = Magneto-Hydrodynamics, which applies to anything "fluid-like", like
a laminar flow of gas, which is ionized.

Turbine:  "any of various machines having a rotor, usually with vanes or
blades, driven by the pressure, momentum, or reactive thrust of a moving
fluid, as steam, water, hot gases, or air, either occuring in the form
of free jets or as a fluid passing through and entirely filling a
housing around the rotor." (whew!)

So, we have a reaction chamber, the exhaust of which is being pushed
through:  A) a turbine and B) an MHD "tube".

The turbine, if optimized for thrust, would basically not even be
present, since a straight "rocket" of our reactant would presumabely
provide more thrust than that same rocket passed through a rotor.

However, if the turbine is optimized for power generation, very little
thrust would result.  So, the turbine is there, leaching some thrust
from our reaction but providing power, but not leaching so much power
that we don't have any thrust.  We can also pass the exhaust
through our MHD and peel off power, as George explained.

Clearly, our initial "power" with this sort of reaction is based on an
ionized, rapidly moving, exhaust, either from some chemical reaction or
from a continuous pulse fusion reactor.  If we were to postulate a linac
as our "injection" device, we would clearly need a source of electricity
to power it, and it seems obvious to me that we wouldn't be able to pull
any more power from our ion beam than was put into it by the linac.

So, my question comes down to:  does anybody have any good figures on
whether having both the turbine stage *and* the MHD stage is efficient
in terms of power/thrust and so forth?  Wouldn't just the MHD be better?

Dane

(Say, is there some significance to the fact that I've gotten about 5
copies of the 7/9 digest?)

traveller@llnl.gov
djohnson@willamette.edu
TNS Stringer ------------ Terra/Solomani Rim (1827 G867975-8)
"I'm not a real Scientist, but I play one in an RPG."

------------------------------

Bundle: 479
Archive-Message-Number: 5748
Date: 10 Jul 93 19:00:00 PST
From: "Lord Krieg" <CVADSAAV@CSUPomona.Edu>
Subject: TNE weapon design

Loren Wiseman's clarification that the Gauss Pistol in TNE is actually 
_supposed_ to be a piece of junk prompted me to post one of the designs 
I've come up with for a campaign based in the same setting as Steve 
Higginbotham's TCS game. The design philosophy here is that guns used 
3700 years in the future should be more effective than those used today, 
not less.

                    Sidearm, Gauss, Marine, Model 5630
					
Notes: The SGM-30 was designed and produced by a consortium of Neubayern 
and New Home companies. For millenia, conventional wisdom has held that 
pistols are worthless on a battlefield. The designers were attempting to 
produce a pistol which would be at least marginally useful in a battle. 
Although they succeeded in their goal to some extent, the resulting pistol 
is too large and expensive to be widely accepted. Some of these pistols 
have been procurred by the NFMC for use by those personnel willing (and 
able) to carry them. 

Ammo: 4x40mm iron dart
Wt: 1.9 kg
Mag: 24 box, .3 kg, Cr30
Cost: Cr1,543


Weapon      ROF     Dam     Pen     Blk     Mag     SS      Brst        Rng
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
SGM-30      3       4       1-2-Nil 2       24      2       3           25

Like all Neubayern small arms, the SGM-30 has an integral laser sight. 
This allows the first three shots after an aim action to get the bonus, 
rather than only the first shot.

                            Kenneth G. Hagler

**********************************************************************
*   Internet: cvadsaav@csupomona.edu    *   My insurance company     *
*   Phone: (909) 865-7751               *     is Beretta U.S.A.      *
*   PGP 2.3 key available on request    *                            *
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
*   ...study of the military arts will make one who is naturally     *
*   clever more so and one who is born somewhat dull rather less     *
*   so.                                                              *
*            --Daidoji Yuzan Shigesuke, _Budo Shoshinshu_            *
**********************************************************************


------------------------------

Bundle: 479
Archive-Message-Number: 5749
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 12:29:49 EDT
From: kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de
Subject: Some problems...

Hello fellow Travellers,

I have mastered two TNE sessions on a Con here in germany this weekend,
and I had some troubles. I would like to get some assistance for those
problems:

1. I collected a group of 5 players, 2 of them familiar with the old
   Traveller rules, three of them unfamiliar with the rules. It took
   4 (four!) hours to create the charaters. Any ideas how I can do this
   faster (I mean other then giving out perfabricated character...that's
   the solution I will use on the next Con if no better idea arises)

2. One of the 5 players choose the profession of a belter and got his
   Strike in the second term. According to the rules he got a Seeker
   and 2D6 times 100 KCr of money. Okay, No big problem though I'm not
   sure, where in the RC you can find a TL 15 Shipyard to build the ship.
   But the other players accumulated 22 Ship DMs. They decided to get
   a ship for them. And rolling 11 on the Trader column and then 12
   on the ship table they got a Far Trader with a very good wear value.
   Now the group has two ships...and of corse they choose to sell one
   of them. As a result they got 30 MCr for the seeker, which they choose
   to sell. Too much money for a starting group. Once again: Any ideas
   how I can stop the players to get so much money?

3. Any ideas about the availability of High Tech Weapons in the RC?
   Exspecially Combat Armor and Battledresses together with Plasma
   and Fusion Guns are the weapon of choice for some of the players.
   Because these weapons were of no use to the adventure I gave the
   weapons to them for a price of 500% of the listed, just to get some
   of the money back.

I had no such problems using the old charater rules because it was
much more difficult to get a ship then. With the TNE rules there is a
large probability to get a ship especially if you have at least one
Navy and one Scientist character. Together these two characters can
easy collect a +30 Ship DM.

I hope to get some comments,

Juergen

P.S.: There is another bug in "The once and Future Empire". I don't know
      if those guys at GDW can read starcards (excuse me Loren...but it was
      to frustrating), but the the world Karguusha (spelling ?) mentioned
      in the adventure is more than 25 jumps (using a Jump-2 Far Trader!)
      away from the RC and Aubaine, where the briefing is. That's more than
      one year of Travel according to the rules. But time is important in
      this adventure, so I had to move the world.
P.P.S.: I suppose someone has turned the chart of Diaspora upside down,
        when the world was selected.
P.P.P.S.: Any idea why I got seven Digest V58#4?

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Juergen Kirsch
Institut fuer Informatik, Universitaet Bonn
Germany
kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de

------------------------------

Bundle: 479
Archive-Message-Number: 5750
From: John H Bogan <jbogan@libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu>
Subject: Gauss guns, problems
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 12:11:43 EDT

  The recent talk about the efficiency of Gauss guns has reminded
me of a complaint one of my friends had on the subject.
His feild is high-energy physics (super-colliders and such) and today he
is working on his doctorate at Fermilab, so I have to gather that he
knows a thing or two about the subject.

  His argument was that the actual details of creating the kind of
magnetic field needed for Gauss rifles and pistols, feild strength over
the short distance of the barrel length, and most importantly for the 
very narrow barrel diameter.  He said this would this would induce 
radiation that would make firing the gun more hazardous to the user than
the target.  Or, in his words;

"The surest way to kill someone with a Gauss rifle is to let him use one."

Needless to say, we listened to his complaints but used the Gauss guns
anyway :)

John H Bogan

jbogan@ic.sunysb.edu


P.S.  You should have heard him go on about Meson guns. Sheesh.



------------------------------

Bundle: 479
Archive-Message-Number: 5751
Date: 	Mon, 12 Jul 1993 16:09:26 -0230
From: Anthony Neal <anthonyn@odie.cs.mun.ca>
Subject: Traveller Universe

Hello:

    I've had the MT rules for six years now and have never really understood
the position of the MT sectors in the known Milky Way galaxy. May seem stupid,
but I have no idea. I mean, is Core supposed to be located at the core of the
galaxy? Or is that just the Imperial Core. And if the Zhodani have been mounting
Core Expeditions every once in a while, Is that to the Core system, or to the
Galactic Core (I always assumed it was the Galactic Core).

    If these expeditions were to the Imperial Core, no wonder the psionophobic
Imperials get so concerned! :-)

    Anyone got an opinion? (heh heh heh)

    Oh, BTW, the animal encounter table generator works. Cleaning up the code
so no one will say "Hey, this guy can't code worth ****". It's got a paging
mechanism built in so you can keep the tables in RAM and choose which one you
want by pressing the PAGE UP and DOWN keys. Gonna require some video card
though. Uses "pretty colors".

    Oh, and since I brought it up, No one ever told me what the wound entry on
the Weight Effects table in the encounter table generation rules means. I'm 
generating a number and I have no Idea why. Nothing in the rule book on it.

    Signing off...
    Anthony

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anthony Neal                 |"Lets bring up the cargo manifest. 2300 laser 
anthonyn@odie.cs.mun.ca      | pistols, 1600 laser rifles, 1 ATV, 67 suits of
Memorial University Of       | combat armor and...    What the hell are 
Newfoundland                 | 'tribbles'?"
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 479
Archive-Message-Number: 5752
From: "Ed Sharpe" <esharpe@hsc.usc.edu>
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 08:26:02 PDT
Subject: Some problems

>I have mastered two TNE sessions on a Con here in germany this weekend,
>and I had some troubles. I would like to get some assistance for those
>problems:
>
It took
>   4 (four!) hours to create the charaters. Any ideas how I can do this
>   faster (I mean other then giving out perfabricated character...

I ALWAYS use prefab characters, even for my long running campain. I 
suggest that you always use prefab charcters for one off adventures.  
(Unless the point of the session is to teach character generation.)  I do 
not even roll dice half the time but just make up the numbers and skills I 
want.  I will write up several characters so that the players have a 
selection to pick from.  I do leave a few things unfinshed so that the 
players can put the final finish on their character.

>2. One of the 5 players choose the profession of a belter and got his
>   Strike in the second term. According to the rules he got a Seeker
>   to sell. Too much money for a starting group. Once again: Any ideas
>   how I can stop the players to get so much money?

See above.  With prefab charcters you can control everything.
>
>3. Any ideas about the availability of High Tech Weapons in the RC?
>   Exspecially Combat Armor and Battledresses together with Plasma
>   and Fusion Guns are the weapon of choice for some of the players.
If the PCs have fusion guns so do the bad guys.  In my game "those who live
by the sword, die by the sword".
//****************************
//* esharpe@phad.hsc.usc.edu
//****************************

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 22:00:04 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #480: Msgs 5753-5774 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed Jul 21 22:00:03 EDT 1993
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 22:00:04 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #480: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 480  5753 13-Jul-1993 Jo Jaquinta      LIBRARY and SYSGEN go public <<  With t
 480  5754 13-Jul-1993 nosnhoJ enaD     Where's the Core? << Well, I just lent 
 480  5755 13-Jul-1993 John H Bogan     Character Generation Problems << > From
 480  5756 13-Jul-1993 Nicholas Sylvai  LIBRARY Availability << May I assume th
 480  5757 14-Jul-1993 Steve Bonnevill  Zhodani & The Core (Re:  Where's the Co
 480  5758 14-Jul-1993 Day John R MSc   medicine,quotes,help << Hi there.
 480  5759 14-Jul-1993 Madhukar_C._Gov  Wanted R/T ticket to San Francisco  in 
 480  5760 14-Jul-1993 TML Administrat  TML duplication ad nauseum << Hi TMLers
 480  5761 14-Jul-1993 Muir Macpherson  2300AD << I am pleased to see the long 
 480  5762 14-Jul-1993 Colin Roald      False advertising << > From: Madhukar_C
 480  5763 15-Jul-1993 Stewart Eyres    << Anthony Neal
 480  5764 15-Jul-1993 Bertil Jonell    Wounds and Teradeaths << > From: Day Jo
 480  5765 15-Jul-1993 "THOMS, KEITH"   Anyone got an opinion! Hah! (Re: Core) 
 480  5766 15-Jul-1993 Derek Wildstar   Classic Traveller "Wake" (Final Reminde
 480  5767 15-Jul-1993 Mark Urbin       TNE Starship Combat and Technical Archi
 480  5768 16-Jul-1993 pihlab@cbr.hhcs  cover of T:TNE << On the cover of T:TNE
 480  5769 16-Jul-1993 pihlab@cbr.hhcs  RE: 2300AD << Muir Macpherson <muirmac@
 480  5770 16-Jul-1993 Jo Jaquinta      LIBRARY & SYSGEN -- where to get <<  So
 480  5771 16-Jul-1993 Goldman of Chao  Re: TML nightly: Msgs 5761-5767 V58#10 
 480  5772 16-Jul-1993 Brian Makens     Re: TML nightly: Msgs 5761-5767 V58#10 
 480  5773 17-Jul-1993 Tony Zbaraschuk  Questions about the Ine Givar << This i
 480  5774 18-Jul-1993 Dale Poole       I finally got mine! << Hi all!

------------------------------

Bundle: 480
Archive-Message-Number: 5753
From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: LIBRARY and SYSGEN go public
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 16:24:50 BST

	With the advent of The New Era I have decided to make Library
free to the public. Thank you for those of you who registerd it over
the years. Those who have registered are now entitled to the source
if they wish and a free version of The New Era environment whenever
I do it.
	For those who aren't familiar with LIBRARY it is an integrated
environment that creates and displays starsystems from MegaTraveller.
Most of the known sectors are available in this distrubution. You can
select any system in the Imperium and expand any planet out and print
full World-Builder-Handbook details and surface maps. It really is a
must!
	It only runs on a PC and supports most screens. (I have a SCO
Unix version if anyone is *really* interested :-). I'm unlikely to do
any more bug-fixes to LIBRARY but I do welcome any and all suggestions
toward The New Era version.

			Jo Grant

_______________________________________________________________________________
Jo Grant			| "Love is blind, or so it seems, to make me
jaymin@maths.tcd.ie		| offer you my dreams. But after all is said and
44 Bancroft Ave., Tallaght,	| done, a blind man's dreams are not much fun."
Dublin 24, IRELAND		| -- Horslips, "The Blind Can't Lead the Blind"

------------------------------

Bundle: 480
Archive-Message-Number: 5754
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 11:49:28 -0700
From: dane@retzlaff.llnl.gov (nosnhoJ enaD)
Subject: Where's the Core?



Well, I just lent out my copies of the _Ref's Manual_ and _Encyclopedia_,
so I can't give you the "Official" answer, Anthony.  However, take a
look at the following two facts:

The page on 71 of the _Players' Manual_ has a diagram indicating, roughly,
what is meant by Coreward, Rimward, etc.  Since the diagrams in Cats &
Rats and Dogs & Cogs always indicated the direction of the Vargr Extents
as Coreward (as does the Ref Manual), I think I'm safe in saying that
the Core sector is just the Imperial Core, and that the Zhodani are
heading towards the Galactic Core, which is "Up" off the large scale
sector maps we've seen.

If we think about it in terms of astronomy, the picture is even clearer:
The Earth (Terra/Solomani Rim) sits, very roughly, about 2/3 of the way
from the galactic core to the rim in real life.  The galactic core is
about 10,000 parsecs from the Earth.  Traveller Sectors are 40x32
parsecs and Coreward is along the long axis of a sector, so we can say that
there's about 250 sectors in between the Solomani Rim and the Galactic
Core.

Dane


traveller@llnl.gov
djohnson@willamette.edu
TNS Stringer ------------ Terra/Solomani Rim (1827 G867975-8)
"I'm not a real Scientist, but I play one in an RPG."

(Be warned that the above numbers are *exceedingly* rough)

------------------------------

Bundle: 480
Archive-Message-Number: 5755
From: John H Bogan <jbogan@libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu>
Subject: Character Generation Problems
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 20:32:13 EDT


> From: kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de
> Subject: Some problems...

> I have mastered two TNE sessions on a Con here in germany this weekend,
> and I had some troubles. I would like to get some assistance for those
> problems:

> 1. I collected a group of 5 players, 2 of them familiar with the old
>    Traveller rules, three of them unfamiliar with the rules. It took
>    4 (four!) hours to create the charaters. Any ideas how I can do this
>    faster (I mean other then giving out perfabricated character...that's
>    the solution I will use on the next Con if no better idea arises)

For a con, I recommend prefabs, both to save time and to insure the
characters have a mix of skills appropriate to the scenario you are running.

For any other use, try making up your own checklist of the generation
process, with all notes or page references in one place. I know the book
has a worksheet, but by putting together your own you will help yourself
learn the mechanics of the procedure better. After that it's simply a 
matter of experience. Once I'm "up and running" with a system, I can crank
out characters in fairly short order. Newbies, however, will slow things
down by any method, with any system, so plan for that.

> 2. One of the 5 players choose the profession of a belter and got his
>    Strike in the second term. According to the rules he got a Seeker
>    and 2D6 times 100 KCr of money. Okay, No big problem though I'm not
>    sure, where in the RC you can find a TL 15 Shipyard to build the ship.
>    But the other players accumulated 22 Ship DMs. They decided to get
>    a ship for them. And rolling 11 on the Trader column and then 12
>    on the ship table they got a Far Trader with a very good wear value.
>    Now the group has two ships...and of corse they choose to sell one
>    of them. As a result they got 30 MCr for the seeker, which they choose
>    to sell. Too much money for a starting group. Once again: Any ideas
>    how I can stop the players to get so much money?

Again, for cons, prefabs eliminate this problem, as _you_ have already
determined their resources.

In other situations, I got around this problem by choosing the campaign
setting myself (with player input as to what sort of things they wanted
to p[lay).  For instance, I might give them a trading ship, stock the 
ship's locker, set basic ship's funds, and then let the players crew it.
I'd also give them d6 years in the Free Traders in the enhanced generation
system, under the assumption that they didn't all just muster out of their
previous service, but have been running the ship for a while, with the
campaign starting when their lives got more interesting than usual.
Monetary muster out benefits were limited to 1, 2, or 3 rolls, depending
on several factors. Total rolls were reduced by 1/3 to 1/2, since I 
already gave them quite a bit of equipement, and the remainder rolled
n the material benefits table. Things they wouldn't be allowed to keep,
like another ship, gave them a related skill level instead.

So far no player has complained about what they "were supposed to get
according to the rules" since they knew up front that if I was GMing, I
wanted to be able to plan ahead of character generation and the random 
assortment of resources it gave.
Then again, my group never really went for the "galactic vagrants" kind
of campaign where they'd bum their way from starport to starport doing
odd jobs.  They tended to prefer those as sidelights to some major
continuing storyline.

NEVER NEVER NEVER let the players simply sell a ship they get during
character generation.  Or at least make it years before they see a credit
of the money, thanks to assorted red tape and legal delays :-)

The RC has NO TL15 shipyards. Just use the TL15 stats for the scout until
the Architecture book lets you design apropriate TL ships.

> 3. Any ideas about the availability of High Tech Weapons in the RC?
>    Exspecially Combat Armor and Battledresses together with Plasma
>    and Fusion Guns are the weapon of choice for some of the players.
>    Because these weapons were of no use to the adventure I gave the
>    weapons to them for a price of 500% of the listed, just to get some
>    of the money back.

Availability? Probably pretty poor, since most of the working ones likely
belong to the government. Auction at 10X or more of list price is not out
of the question, though.

> I had no such problems using the old charater rules because it was
> much more difficult to get a ship then. With the TNE rules there is a
> large probability to get a ship especially if you have at least one
> Navy and one Scientist character. Together these two characters can
> easy collect a +30 Ship DM.

Characters need a ship in TNE because the bumming from 'port to 'port 
routine just doesn't work too well outside the Regency. Consider my
suggestion of setting up the basic situation yourself, and then allowing
the players peronalise the smaller details.

> I hope to get some comments,

And you got them.

> Juergen

John H Bogan 
jbogan@ic.sunysb.edu


> P.P.P.S.: Any idea why I got seven Digest V58#4?

The Virus is "waving the flag" on TML?



------------------------------

Bundle: 480
Archive-Message-Number: 5756
From: sylvain@netcom.com (Nicholas Sylvain)
Subject: LIBRARY Availability
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 20:56:36 PDT

May I assume that this ultimate version of LIBRARY is on sunbane?

- -- 
Nicholas Sylvain (sylvain@netcom.com) --- I am the NRA

------------------------------

Bundle: 480
Archive-Message-Number: 5757
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 08:43:57 -0500
From: bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu (Steve Bonneville)
Subject:  Zhodani & The Core (Re:  Where's the Core?)


Following up on this subject, the old Library Data entries do recognize
that a confusion may exist between "coreward" as most of the Traveller
galaxy recognizes it (toward the galactic core) and "coreward" as
the former Imperium recognized it (toward Capital and the Core Worlds).

The Zhodani *certainly* use "coreward" in the first sense, especially
since they really don't care which way Capital is as long as it doesn't
pose a threat to them.  Besides which, somewhere in the MT Ref's 
Manual there is a figure on how far the Zhodani expeditions have
penetrated, and it converts to something like two hundred sector
lengths toward the Galactic Core (!!), and Capital was *much* closer
to Zhdant than that.  And any Zhodani expeditionary fleet headed
for capital wouldn't be the Core Expedition anyway...it'd be more
like the Sixth Frontier War! :)

- --Steve

PS  Anybody want to place any bets on how soon we'll all be calling
    "Capital" Sylea again?   I wonder what's going on in there....

- --------------------------------------------------------------------
INTERNET: bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu
 "Back in the good old days of gaming, there were no rules --
  only a referee with a gun and a chair."    -- David L. Arneson
- --------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Bundle: 480
Archive-Message-Number: 5758
From: Day John R MSc Soft Eng <J.R.Day@teesside.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 16:31:58 BST
Subject: medicine,quotes,help

Hi there.

I hope you don't mind me sending this here, as I'm not a member of the list.
You could say I was an "off-line" reader, as I only read the archived bundles
because of intermittent computer contact.

If I mention anything thats been covered recently please excuse me, I'm not up
to date yet.

Has anyone noticed the suspiciously fast wound recovery rates in T:TNE?
I may be reading it wrongly (if I am, shout at me and I'll be suitably
embarassed :-)), but it looks like a char. can be practically dead and then
a week later be up and running about again.
The rules seem to say that recovery from a single critical wound takes only
5 days without medical assistance. You can just hear it :-

A : "Hi, B, how are you?"
B : "Well, A, I was shot in the leg with a fusion gun and damn near bled to
      death."
A : "Oh, I suppose you'll be laid up for a bit then."
B : "Nah, that was last week. Fancy a game of grav ball?"

I know that the short recovery times are good in a game sense (who wants to
roleplay 6 months of going to phsio. sessions?), but there should be some
way of making a seriously wounded characters pay for it a bit longer, perhaps
in the form of reduced strength or agility (dexterity, whatever). If anybody 
has any ideas for curing (pun intended!) this then I'd be interested to know.

On T:TNE itself, I don't mind the rules revision (replacement, call it what
you will) but the whole background to it worries me. I didn't see the need
for the virus in the first place, it was just a plot device to get somewhere
which could have just as easily been reached some other way with less of a 
mess. Has anybody worked out roughly how many sophonts were killed by the 
whole virus thing? It must be in the trillions at least. Anyway, if the
Technical Architecture(?) book comes out soon and is in reasonable shape
then that will keep me happy.

What are people's favourite Trav. quotes/extracts? I'm writing a DOS program 
which will give me a random Trav. quote whenever I ask for one. I'll need a 
good few to keep it seeming fresh (especially if I decide to connect it to 
the autoexec.bat so it gives me one every time I boot up). Anything up to about 10 lines long should be OK, whether from the rules,adventures, the PBEM game or whatever. If I get a good selection then I'll upload it the archives when its
finished for others to use (assuming it ever works, that is).

Finally, a cry for help. My computer access will be being removed permanently
at the end of September. Is there any kind soul in the UK who is prepared to
load the TML messages/bundles onto floppy and send them to me? All expenses
paid (disk, postage etc.), and if you're intimidating enough a (small(!)) 
payment for the time it takes? If somebody could then I'll be forever grateful.

Thanks for listening. If anyone is going to reply to me personally (even if
it's to shout at me for posting to the list when I'm not a member!) then don't
be surprised if an answer takes a few weeks. I HATE projects!!

Rob Day.

------------------------------

Bundle: 480
Archive-Message-Number: 5759
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 11:42:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Madhukar_C._Govindaraju@transarc.com
Subject: Wanted R/T ticket to San Francisco  in September

Hi,

I need the CHEAPEST round-trip ticket from Pittsburgh to any airport in the
San Francisco Area ( San Francisco, San Jose, Oakland, Santa Clara, etc.)
My desired travel day is between September 5 and 15.  If you can help me,
please contact me via e-mail.  Thanks in advance.

I am flexible about outbound and inbound cities, anywhere reasonable close
would do. Outbound and inbound dates are "reasonably" flexible too.
Please contact me ASAP. Thanks.

Madhukar C.G

+***********************************************************************+
*                                                                       *
*  |\/\/\/|   Member Technical Staff [MTS]                              *
*  |      |   Transarc Corporation                                      *
*  |      |   The Gulf Tower, 707 Grant Street,                         *
*  | (o)(o)   Pittsburgh, PA 15219.                                     *
*  C      _)  TEL: (412)-338-6946 (Office)                              *
*   | ,___|   FAX: (412)-338-4404                                       *
*   |   /     Internet: madhu+@transarc.com                             *
*  /____\     ========                                                  *
* /      \                                                              *
+***********************************************************************+



------------------------------

Bundle: 480
Archive-Message-Number: 5760
Subject: TML duplication ad nauseum
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Administrator)
From: TML Administrator <traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca>
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 13:33:08 PDT


Hi TMLers,

Seven copies of the TML Nightly V58#4 were mailed out in a
sixteen-minute frenzy just after 2030 hours on Friday, July 9. I don't
know why. It appears that the duplication was brought on by the
nova.engrg.uwo.ca->Internet mail transfer system, as all messages share
identical Message-Id and Date headers, and the only changes are in the
Recieved lines. Dan, does this behavior correlate with any known problem
at UWO's internet gateway at that time?

Also, my apologies for very slow response time lately. I've had a number
of family issues to face in the last two months and my time at work has
been suffering. Please be patient and I'll work hard to answer all the
outstanding Traveller administrative email requests from the list within
the next week.

James

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Eugene, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 480
Archive-Message-Number: 5761
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 18:06:42 -0700
From: Muir Macpherson <muirmac@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: 2300AD


I am pleased to see the long list of folks on TML interested in 2300.

I'd like to start off some discussion if I may.  I'm beginning a campaign and
in thinking about where I'd like to take it I have run into some problems with
using the Kafer War, particularly as described in Invasion sourcebook.  One
of the things that I enjoyed most about 2300AD was the background of colonial
tensions and conflicts that made it such a rich place for adventure and intri-
gue.  But if the Kafers are going to come through in a few years and trash
the whole place anyway, what's the point? 
	Even if one is only using the Kafers on Aurore, long term campaigns
with them as the prniciple enemy seem difficult because of their stupidity
and of the difficulty of communicating with them.  How can you keep the players
interest when their only way of interacting with their opponent is militarily?
I know that there are military based campaigns out there, but even these 
would quickly degenerate into wargaming if not for some intrigue.
	The solution I have settled on is to use the Kafer War only as a 
backdrop for intrigue among the human colonists.  The French seek to use the
war and the resulting weakened state of the other two colonies to extend
their influence on Aurore; Tanstaafl has internal splits between the corrupt
civilian gov't and the Legion, and the Ukranians are looking for an angel fo
mercy to save them.
	Of course this solution requires disregarding all of Invasion and 
relegating the Kafer, one of the best developed aspects of the game, to a 
backdrop.  Does anyone have any better ideas?

------------------------------

Bundle: 480
Archive-Message-Number: 5762
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 21:59:04 EDT
From: Colin Roald <colin@callisto.pas.rochester.edu>
Subject: False advertising

> From: Madhukar_C._Govindaraju@transarc.com
> Subject: Wanted R/T ticket to San Francisco  in September

> I need the CHEAPEST round-trip ticket from Pittsburgh to any airport in the
> San Francisco Area...

Somebody is going to have to explain to this poor chap about the
"Traveller" part of "Traveller Mailing List"...   *8)


- --
colin  |  everyone you see, everyone you meet, everyone you talk to, are all
roald  |  asleep. there are only a handful of fully awake people in the world,
       |  and they live in a state of constant amazement.  (joe vs the volcano)

------------------------------

Bundle: 480
Archive-Message-Number: 5763
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 07:55:26 +0100 (BST)
From: Stewart Eyres <spe@jb.man.ac.uk>
Subject: 

Anthony Neal

Somewhere in the Traveller library data - and I think it was transferred
to MT - there is an explanation of `Galactic Directions', namely Spinward
in the direction of galactic spin, Trailing in the opposite direction,
Rimward towards the *galactic* rim, and Corewards towards the *galactic*
core.  As a caveat, it was also noted that the Imperial Core (ie Core
sector, the location of Capital)  allowed some confusion in the use of the
term `Coreward', as for a large chunk of the Imperium, the two directions
were actually different.

As to where charted space is in the Milky Way, well Terra is typically
taken to be about 10000 pc from the galactic core, although this distance
is difficult to measure too precisely.  Thus, the Zhodani Core Expeditions
are to the galactic core, and they haven't got there yet (unless you take
the extreme limit of current measurements errors, and even then I'm not
sure).  I think these distances for the core may be included in the
Traveller literature under the explanation of Imperial coordinate systems,
and the location of Reference.

Rob Day

Send details to the address below, and I'll see what I can do.



_____________________________________________________________________________
"Traveller Done Wrong 
	- Let's get the Fiction back into Science Fiction Roleplaying"

Stewart	Eyres							N.R.A.L.
								Jodrell Bank
								Macclesfield
spe@jb.man.ac.uk						Cheshire
								SK11 9DL
____________________________________________________________________________



------------------------------

Bundle: 480
Archive-Message-Number: 5764
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Wounds and Teradeaths
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 14:07:27 +0200 (MET DST)

> From: Day John R MSc Soft Eng <J.R.Day@teesside.ac.uk>
> Subject: medicine,quotes,help

> Has anyone noticed the suspiciously fast wound recovery rates in T:TNE?

  Yup, I'd rather see long recivery times that could be shortened by technology
(our old friend the medical slow drug for example:) 

> The rules seem to say that recovery from a single critical wound takes only
> 5 days without medical assistance. You can just hear it :-

  As I read it, crit to serious takes seven days, serious to slight 4 days
and slight to unwounded three for a total of 14 days (IMHO I'd like at least
two months here, plus the possibility of permanent damage unless treated).

> Has anybody worked out roughly how many sophonts were killed by the 
> whole virus thing?

  Checking the results my program gave (subtracting the 1200 population from
the 1117 population and adding the population increases that are included in
the 1200 population, since I'm not that morbid that I included a 'total
killed' notation in the report file:) gives these values for a few sectors:

Sector		Reduction	Density (as per TD10)
Gushemege	82%		0.92
Corridor	91%		1.06
Dagudashaag	96%		1.24
Vland		99%		1.85

  I would expect them to be accurate only to within 5 or 10 percent, but it
is pretty clear that densly populated areas are more vulnerable, even if
they are mostly safe areas that have been spared from black war (like Vland).

  The average population density of the Imperium is 1.76, but since I don't
think the reductions can get over 99% even in Solomani Rim with a density of
5.2, I'd guess that the overall reduction is 95%.

  On a total population of 15.76e12, that means 14.97e12 dead, or around
three thousand times the earths current population. 

  I remember that Wildstar asked Dave Nilsen why so few people died during the
Hard Times (<2% in Diaspora). Looks like the Virus makes up for it, with 
interest.

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Bundle: 480
Archive-Message-Number: 5765
Date: 15 Jul 93 08:25:00 EST
From: "THOMS, KEITH" <KTHOMS@nccs-evax.navy.mil>
Subject: Anyone got an opinion! Hah! (Re: Core)


     As an average adventuring Imperial citizen, I've always imagined 
the Imperial Core as the cultural and bureaucratic center of the 
Imperium.  Notwithstanding war zones, it is more "civilized" with 
higher tech, pop, and law levels than the "frontier" areas such as 
the Spinward Marches and other zones adjacent to alien sectors.  

     It is more a mental image than one born of demographic data.  
This reflects the historical mindsets of the Imperial culture, since 
the Spinward Marches technically have been populated by Imperials for 
around a thousand years, with little expansionist settlement recently 
(apart from District 268).

     Now aliens would have a different perspective on the Imperium.  
Generally speaking, the Aslan treat the Imperium as a frontier ripe 
for settlement.  The Zhodani see the Imperium as nothing more than a 
military threat from backwards thinking people.  Human and yet 
uninterested in Imperial culture, the Zhodani are exploring in 
directions other than the Imperium.  I would guess that the space 
toward the Galactic Core is unpopulated and ripe for exploration.  
I've always heard "Zhodani" used with "core expeditions" to delineate 
their perspective, toward the Galactic center, since they are not
interested in Imperial culture.

     And if you don't like this explanation, then do away with one of 
the Cores, say the Imperial Core, and make another game! 8-O

Keith Thoms


------------------------------

Bundle: 480
Archive-Message-Number: 5766
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 09:37:36 EDT
From: wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: Classic Traveller "Wake" (Final Reminder)



The Classic Traveller "Wake"!  (Final Reminder)


Take some time out of your summer to come and meet other Traveller
players, talk about the "Good Ol Days" of the Classic Imperium, reflect
on the Rebellion, and speculate about the New Era.

When : 198 -2528 (Imperial)  7-17-1993 (Solomani)
       Saturday, July 17th 1993; 6:00pm Local Time

Where: Terra (Sol Gamma) Solomani Rim 1827
       Rockville, Maryland


	o The "Wake" will be simulcast on Internet Relay Chat;
	  join channel #Traveller starting at around 6pm.


Please RSVP me (by e-mail, USnail, or phone) for detailed directions and
any special information you might need. 


Bring your favorite party food or drink!  While I will have basic party
supplies, I suggest that you eat dinner first (or a bunch of us can
always do the Famous Role-Playing Standby: order out for pizza).

	o It looks like we are "Go" for pizza

	o Bring a camcorder if you have one handy


Guy Garnett

(301) 871-5104 (home) 7-10pm local time weekdays, 9am-11pm weekends

wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu

14007 Eagle Court
Rockville, MD 20853



wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                 Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                         in the Far Future


------------------------------

Bundle: 480
Archive-Message-Number: 5767
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 15:18:35 -0400
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@interlan.interlan.com>
Subject: TNE Starship Combat and Technical Architecture


  What is the office word on the release dates and prices for these products?

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Urbin  Racal-Interlan   Boxborough, MA  These opinions are mine.
USENET: Post to exotic, distant machines.  Meet exciting, unusual people.  
And flame them.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 480
Archive-Message-Number: 5768
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 12:00:10 +1000
From: pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.au
Subject: cover of T:TNE


On the cover of T:TNE are a couple of creatures (don't have the book here
so I can't remember the exact colours) which appear to be pink lizardy
creatures.

Any idea what they are supposed to be?

Bruce...      pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.au

------------------------------

Bundle: 480
Archive-Message-Number: 5769
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 11:55:42 +1000
From: pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.au
Subject: RE: 2300AD


Muir Macpherson <muirmac@ocf.Berkeley.EDU> writes:

> ... lines deleted ...
>        Of course this solution requires disregarding all of Invasion and
>relegating the Kafer, one of the best developed aspects of the game, to a
>backdrop.  Does anyone have any better ideas?

A couple:

1. Change the timeline so the players don't know when/if major Kafer
   invasion is coming.

2. Play after the Kafer invasion and have the Kafer race beaten but still
   acting as pirates etc...

3. Move into the Manchurian arm away from the Kafers.

4. How about introducing a VIRUS that raises the Kafer NICEness quotiant to
   something resembling a french citizen and then simply play on about 70
   years into the future 8^}.


Bruce...           pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.au

------------------------------

Bundle: 480
Archive-Message-Number: 5770
From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: LIBRARY & SYSGEN -- where to get
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 10:14:52 BST

	Sorry, it seems I didn't post where you can get them :-(
	They are available from anonymous FTP on walton.maths.tcd.ie
in directory pub/jaymin/trav as files sysgen.zip and library.zip. If
you can't FTP drop me a line and we may work out an alternative.

				Jo

PS: Just got TNE yesterday. Has anyone noticed the great lack of women
in their artwork? It is one thing I admired about MT was that they often
portrayed women (and sometimes men) in non-traditional roles. Sigh.


------------------------------

Bundle: 480
Archive-Message-Number: 5771
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 5761-5767 V58#10
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 10:40:18 CDT
From: goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US)
Reply-To: goldman@orac.cray.com

> Bundle: 480
> Archive-Message-Number: 5762
> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 21:59:04 EDT
> From: Colin Roald <colin@callisto.pas.rochester.edu>
> Subject: False advertising
> 
> > From: Madhukar_C._Govindaraju@transarc.com
> > Subject: Wanted R/T ticket to San Francisco  in September
> 
> > I need the CHEAPEST round-trip ticket from Pittsburgh to any airport in the
> > San Francisco Area...
> 
> Somebody is going to have to explain to this poor chap about the
> "Traveller" part of "Traveller Mailing List"...   *8)

Naah, he didn't say for what year.  Of course he also didn't say if he
wanted high, medium, or low passage to SF.

- -- 
Matthew Goldman  E-mail: goldman@orac.cray.com Work: (612) 683-3061

When I'm shopping for a computer I don't look for the "Intel Inside"
logo, I look for the "non-Euclidean Inside" logo.

------------------------------

Bundle: 480
Archive-Message-Number: 5772
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 09:29:22 -0700
From: brianm@ivy.isc.com (Brian Makens)
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 5761-5767 V58#10

>Bundle: 480
>Archive-Message-Number: 5762
>Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 21:59:04 EDT
>From: Colin Roald <colin@callisto.pas.rochester.edu>
>Subject: False advertising

>> From: Madhukar_C._Govindaraju@transarc.com
> Subject: Wanted R/T ticket to San Francisco  in September

>> I need the CHEAPEST round-trip ticket from Pittsburgh to any airport in
>>the  San Francisco Area...

>Somebody is going to have to explain to this poor chap about the
>"Traveller" part of "Traveller Mailing List"...   *8)

 We need a little information before we can answer this man's question,
 First,  Is he a member of the Traveller Aid Society?
 Second, Does he desire high,middle or low passage?
 Third,  would he consider working passage?

  Personally I prefer Tukera Lines for the service, I am really
  sick of the peanuts that Oberlindes Lines always hands out

				Brian Makens

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Bundle: 480
Archive-Message-Number: 5773
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 93 22:34:07 EST
From: Tony Zbaraschuk <TZBARASC@ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Questions about the Ine Givar

This is my first posting to the list, so excuse any errors...
 
 
I'm planning a Traveller campaign (set in the pre-5th Frontier War Spinward
Marches) and I'm planning to use the Ine Givar terrorists as one of the
plot threads (they're trying to sabotage some planetary defenses and naval
bases just before war breaks out).  But I don't know very much about the
Ine Givar (other than what showed up in 5FW, where they were basically
Zhodani-controlled guerilla armies).  I can't seem to find very much in
other sources.
 
Hence some questions I was wondering if you might help me with...
 
1) Are the Ine Givar a single organization, or an umbrella organization
linking groups on different worlds, or just the Imperial label for any
anti-Imperial terrorism that pops up?
 
2) Given that guerilla groups can't be effective without backing of some
sort, who supports them: the Zhodani or the Sword Worlds (I've seen some
suggestions of the latter).  The answer to this will probably influence
question 3.
 
3) What, exactly, do the Ine Givar want out of life?  The Imperium to just
go away?  Union with the Zhodani?  Changes in Imperial policies?  Norris'
head on a pike?  The published information I've seen is singularly vague
about Ine Givar motivations (other than to say that they're 'anti-Imperial',
whatever that means).
 
4) Roughly how active are they?  (I suppose this would vary from world
to world, depending on Ine Givar strength locally, their targets, and so
forth).  This is probably a campaign-dependent decision, but I'd like to
know what levels of activity could be justified.
 
Thanks.
 
Tony Zbaraschuk
 
"What do you mean, I can't buy a PGMP-13?  It says 'law level 0' right here."
 
 
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 480
Archive-Message-Number: 5774
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 20:40:42 -0300 (ADT)
From: Dale Poole <cadpoole@zeus.cs.upei.ca>
Subject: I finally got mine!


Hi all!

Well this week someone on the mainland gave a good yank on the rope that
keeps PEI from floating away....and while we were nice and close to the
shoreline, Traveller:TNE arrived! 

(Welcome to reality in the Canadian Maritimes!)

I noticed several weeks ago, that people were sharing some rather large
collections of errata.  Have they been archived on their own, at some
easily accessible site? 

If not, could those folks who diligently compiled the errors and their
corrections, forward them to me? 

Much appreciated.

I have only a couple of comments so far, as I haven't read too far into
the book yet. 

1. I thought the soft cover was okay, but the paper inside doesn't appear
   to be very resilient.  Already, just flipping between character tables
   has resulted in some wrinkles.

2. The artwork seems to be much better.

3. I enjoyed the History section, because I have often struggled to try and
   put all of the Traveller material into some kind of perspective.

   Now, if they could reliably put all the various products on a timeline!

4. I can't put my finger on it, but the Character Generation seems a little
   more friendly.  However, I would have liked to get a summary of the steps
   required to generate a full character, along thelines of the summary
   in MegaTraveller.  There will be more wrinkled pages before I get the
   hang of *all* the details.


So these are all pretty superficial comments.  I have never had a complete
grasp on Traveller, and compared to many TMLers, it will likely be years
before I do.  But the layout of the book (and so far the content) has me
more confident that I might be able to get a game going among some friends.

Any comments/suggestions are welcome!


Daleus
aka Dale Poole
cadpoole@atlas.cs.upei.ca


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